HI. I'm a 43 year old woman and I live with my folks.
I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, fibromyalgia, Something called P.O.T.S. which effects me neurologically, and a bunch of other physical issues..which is why I live with my folks.
For the past ten years I've been on health forums for myself. Researching to understand my illnesses,and looking for help, hope, etc. I haven't been able to work for a few years now and some days can't get out of bed. It's been a really hard few years.
NOt to sound like I'm feeling sorry for myself ..but maybe I am LOL.
Because on top of this, now I am dealing with the added burden of my father going through this..Whatever this is.
The doctors say he has Dementia..but I don't know quite what that means. They didn't say Alzheimer's but they gave us meds for that. It's just really hard for me because I am so sick of sickness. I'm sick of researching and looking for answers for myself, and now I feel forced to do it for someone else.
And that someone is being really hard to live with.
My Dad has always had his problems. He's not the most positive person. Pretty self centered..Loves to complain, and could be a real pain in the A**. But he has never been abusive in any way.
BUt lately he has changed.
He has been changing the past few years. Having trouble using a pay phone was the first thing i noticed. Then he couldn't use the home phone, Has some trouble with the remote control. ANd seemed to forget things, like that my Mom told him he was supposed to go to the doctor. Then he'd insist she never told him. Or she's trying to make him seem crazy. He's gotten worse and worse with that. Like she's out to get him. He's always saying we're (me and my Mom )team up against him. When we're always trying to help him.
I have a brother who lives close, but he's always buzy with work and family and so isn't really in on all the daily fun. He's been involved lately, but isn't much for support. He used to take care of me when I was little, SO I felt I could lean on him at first.
He seems to get upset just hearing about it. He gets himself a nervous wreck from hearing what goes on..I'm like , hey, try living here for day. But I realize now he's not gonna be my rock.
SO what's been happening here is My dad has diabetes, Liver cirrhosis and neuropathy (sp?)from the diabetes. He used to have burning feet all the time, but now he says he's cold all of the time. He's been putting the heat up all the way. It was about 80 degrees yesterday!
He says he's in Pain, but they had him in the hospital and couldn't find any cause for it. They raised his neuopathy meds to see if that might help but no help so far.
So basically he is in pain all of the time and he's is freezing all of the time and this is driving him crazy. The thing is we dont' know how much is real and how much is in his head or drama. The thing is I'm not one to say someone's pain is in their head..Since that's what they used to say about fibromyalgia, and it is very real. But I think the way he obsesses about things does make it worse. The problem is he doesn't have the ability to help himself. He never learned that. He and My Mom have had a codependent relationship all their lives so now he expects her to make it all go away. And he blames her for everything. everything is her fault.
It' s been very frustrating because I could see this going on fro years and would try to help my mom see that she does too much or him, but she just doesn't get it.
Anyway,
now it's this mess. He's in terrific pain that the doctors don't know what to do about, and he takes it out on her, and me and even the dog now.
He does physically push her , She'll play it down and then later on I find out what really happened. He's not very strong, so I guess she doesn't feel threatened but it's just not acceptable. I don't care how much pain he's in, or how much dementia he has. If I get involved , he'll turn on me. He came after me a few times. And I grabbed him and held him down to stop him. But I don't' like this and I'm afraid he'll get hurt. But I'm not gonna stand there and get hit. Someone told me I should just leave. Which I do , but if someone comes at you, you put up your hands to block them, then he gets mad and starts flailing with his arms,. It's not good.
So the other week. I had enough. I ran out of the house. I dont' like leaving my Mom alone but i couldn't stand it.I told her to come but she wouldn't . Then five minutes later she called. She said he hit her hard this time. It made her ear go deaf for a minute..She got scared and fed up finally, and called 911.
They took him to the hospital and he talked to doctors all week. They were going to put him into a local psychiatric hospital. My brother and i thought finally we will get some help, he will get some help. I felt bad for him but knew it was best. Then the day he was set to go my MOm calls me on the phone. She's on the way home with my Dad. They said he was better at home and released him! They gave him Abilify..for like 3 or 4 days and since he was calm, I guess everything was supposed to be fine. They knew about the hitting. He even told them, yet they sent him home.
SO he was good the first 2 weeks, but a little snappy. Okay I could live with that. BUt little by little it just went back to the way it was. Not really a surprise to me. SO this week I called 911..again, after he was putting his hands around my Mom's neck. She says it wasn't hard..that doesn't matter. I called. They said they couldn't take him to the hospital without his consent, because he was able to think for himself. I mean these two ambulance drivers decided this. ANd the cop said all he could do is arrest him but he wont 'be sent to a psychiatric or geriatric home, and they'll just realese him because they don't know what to do with him.
SO I went to the docs with them today and ask ed to talk to a social worker. Spent an hour with her, and she's nice and understanding but not giving me any help. She talks about planning for long term care, and i"m like what are we going to do with him now? She says 'WE can't put him into the psychiatric or geriatric hospital, and he has to go to the ER and get admitted from there. I'm like yeah he'll do that..Y know cause he's so rational.
It's like pulling teeth finding help with this. I have no idea of how these things work but it seems when you say my father has been hitting my mother and has dementia, the doctor should be able to put him in the hospital and transfer him to a mental health facility. She was saying like it was up to him. Unless I could get someplace to come to the house and interview him and decided to put him in..she didn't give me any specific names of places though. More like call the office on aging, and stuff like that. I dunno. it's so confusing.
I saew a place while searching that sounded great,,I mean fro what it was. It was ro patients with dementia that are aggressive and they specifically treat fro that..look for causes and try to calm the crisis..which it seems like he is in right now. I asked her about the place but she says it' s not in my county and I had to had to go to someplace in my county? I've never heard of this. I mean if they take his insurance why shouldn't he be able to go there?
anyway that's where i am. Sorry for the long post, I'm just so strung out from going through all of this today.
The doctor did give him a stronger sleeping pill so I'm hoping that will help. When he gets aggressive is at night, when he can't go to sleep. I hope this helps at least.
OH and I'm making my Mom sleep in my room now. I don't think he really intends to hurt her. He's not very strong, but I just can't have that, and I just don't trust him anymore.
well thanks fro listening
Susan
P.S. Sorry for any typos, I have trouble typing sometimes. It's this cognitive crap, or brain fog that comes with my illness. I sometimes type letters out of order..Like I notice I type f-r-o instead of f-o-r. I don't see a spell check but if there's one, please let me know. I also have trouble reading print sometimes, like today, and it's hard for me to go back and fix my mistakes. I hope you understand. When I 'm doing good I am very good at proofreading my letters.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: slms,

quote:

SO now, I"m starting to think about his. AND your post make me think out it too. You see when he went into the hospital the first time it was because we called 911 when he hit my Mom. But he was also in a lot of pain. They did all kinds of tests and couldn't find anything.

First thought that comes to mind since this is so much like my MIL is acute Pancreatitis.
We couldnt figure out why all the pain till it came to a head with violent behavior complete and total confusion didnt recognize family at all if they came to visit, my Hunny and I were the exceptions since we were around her daily.
Any of that sound similar?
And he most certainly sounds like he does have OCD tendencies along with a little paranoia which can hamper certain drug protocol.
My MIL is on Trazodone also (God I love that drug! lol) that was a lifesaver for MIL
Ativan IMHO thats a no no its addictive and should only be used in cases with extreme agitation I wish they would stop over using that drug fercryinoutloud. Its great when you see the extreme conditions but I cant tell you how many times Iv seen that drug prescribed for daily use lately with just plain ole stress cases
Anti depressants we didnt have much luck with so if you dont see any profound changes report it to his PCP theres no sense in keeping him on it if its having no effect.
I hope the Trazodone helps though I see a lot of positive with this one here it actually only took a week to see the positive results with MIL
Boy oh boy do I feel your pain in this sweetie and with your diagnosis PLEASE take time for yourself I cant even begin to tell you what I went through here.
I sound fairly calm in my posts from 2 years ago but that couldnt be further from the truth I was surviving on 2-3 hours of sleep a night BP was through the roof I was essentially ready to explode dealing with all these issues.
My only light at the end of this so called tunnel was from the folks here who taught me to research and question doctors who dont know crap when it came to my MIL. I thank GOD for them everyday, they kept me balanced and on target at all times but I get what you mean about having to research for your dad after everything you went through with your own issues but Ill tell you what...at the end of the day if this is where you want dad to stay it would serve you and mom well to do exactly that. Research

quote:

Originally posted by Moms_Buddy:
Welcome, Susan! Don't worry about typos - ya don't have to have any kind of disease at all for your fingers to get going faster (or slower) than your brain!

PLEASE do some reading here about dementia. It is not a disease in and of itself, but rather, a collection of symptoms that are caused by another degenerative process. It is the physical, behavioral & cognitive manifestations you observe when someone's brain is dying cell by cell.

Violence is not uncommon and should NEVER be ignored or downplayed. It sounds like your father is "sundowning," a puzzling condition where a person becomes agitated from late afternoon on... If you search the forum here for "sundowning" or "sundowner's" you will find a lot of discussion about it.

Is your father on medicare or medicaid? The rules and guidelines for placement can be maddening!! It is not as simple as having the doctor put someone in the hospital because of the way the system is structured. You can learn a lot about this by reading in the Legal and Financial issues forum here.

Getting a person placed in a facility involuntarily is difficult. Each state and county have their own guidelines about involuntary placement. Some places have great facilities; others have none. A social worker should be able to explain about this to you. It sounds kinda looney, but a psych facility is not the place for him (he isn't insane) and a nursing home or ALF may not accept him because of his propensity for violence against others. It's damned if you do and damned if you don't!! Totally frustrating!!

I'd suggest that if he has not already done so, arrange for him to see a geriatric neurologist and get a good inpatient psych workup. It usually takes around 10 days for all the specialists to interview, test, discuss and decide on a diagnosis and course of therapy for him.

Since your mother is still alive, SHE is his next of kin and needs to see an attorney who specializes in elder law, especially if she does not have a DPOA (Durable Power of Attorney). In many cases, there's simply nothing one can do until the country orders a competency hearing or someone petitions the court for guardianship on the grounds that he is incompetent to make decisions for himself.

You can call elder protection services when he becomes violent with your mom. Sometimes, getting them involved is the only way to get someone the help they need.

Good luck!!

thanks for your advice. You know i heard my Sister in law talk about sundowning a while ago..she's a nurse..and that's sounds just like what he's doing. I'll look for more info on it thank you. He has gotten a new drug that has made him sleep the past few nights and he has been calmer. The thing is it isn't keeping him asleep the whole night, but today when he was up in the early morning he was better. I don't know if this will last but it is nice right now.
thanks again for the help.
Susan

quote:

Originally posted by Bunnys_grl:

quote:

Or like you guys said maybe it is causing him to be more aggressive or making the dementia worse.

1
I went through this with MIL on some of these drugs because she had existing psych issues from way back although these bouts were when we were trying AD meds as well as that dreaded Haladol *God save us all from that dang drug!*
Abilify, I dont think it was out yet when we started Psychotropic class drugs.
I hate to be so blunt but did dad have psych issues to begin with before the diagnosis?
The reason why I ask is that I believe they have less of a tolerance for some drugs and is the reason they react so quickly to certain drugs.
Most drugs take about 3-4 weeks to see any kind of effect where as psych patients react within a 2 week period, could this be the case?
You stated he's always had problems in the past just not what those problems were.
Something for you to think about cause really I feel your pain, I felt like I was banging my head against a wall with MIL
First get him tested for a UTI like Mae said (Thanks again Mae ) this is VERY important to rule out first.
If its not a UTI talk to dads PCP and ask for a referral to a Geriatric psych evaluation.
Write down everything about dad and his behaviors prior to the diagnosis and after as well as his behaviors with the new meds.
When I spoke to our County's Mental health dept. it did make a difference to them when it came to prior behaviors of MIL so its important you be as honest as you can hun.
Take off your "dad glasses" and really examine past behavior I cant stress this enough.
Good luck and keep us posted

No, don't worry you were being too blunt. In fact I haven't had my Dad glasses on for a long time.lol
He has always been a worrier. He was a "Checker'..something common in Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. The thing is when I was little we didn't' know what OCD was. He'd checked the car fro ten minutes after we came home from the store. Making sure it was locked, this was shut off that was shut off, etc etc. and checked the stove , the locks in the house. WE just thought it was funny. We were kids , so we had no idea. But it was never that bad that top effect his life in any big way. It was just a Quirk we thought.
Like i said he was always a worrier, and his whole side of the family were nervous wrecks really .But again,'funny daddy. worrying about nothing'.
Then when i became a teen I started having OCD symptoms. Again nothing that majorly affected my life, but it was a pain, I had to turn off the light three times , or count to ten if someone said something that scared me. if I dropped something i had to pick it up and drop it three times..don't' ask me why three was a magic number. Little rituals. But I actually grew out of that..luckily. So I didn't have the behavior part of OCD but now i had the obsessive thoughts. I got so bad i wound up in the inpatient in a mental health facility. ANd I got help not so much with the meds but with cognitive therapy, and it changed my life. Over the years i tried to help my Dad with it, Because i could see him struggling but he wouldn't have any of it. Finally when he retired His obsessive worrying got out of control and he agreed to see a Psychiatrist, rather than go inpatient...for meds. Well he found the right guys because he wasn't exactly giving him therapy. But he gave him drugs and that's all my Dad wanted. He gave him Ativan , and that calmed him down so he was fine with that. And the doc only saw him once every three months for a half and hour. MY Mom even told him once, that we thought my dad had OCD and why, but he ignored it. He didn't see it..Of course he didn't, he didn't live with my father, and the guy that came in to see him wasn't my dad. He was an actor, pretending everything is fine but he needs the Ativan and that's all. Anyway we were glad that at least he was getting some kind of help.

SO now, I"m starting to think about his. AND your post make me think out it too. You see when he went into the hospital the first time it was because we called 911 when he hit my Mom. But he was also in a lot of pain. They did all kinds of tests and couldn't find anything. They had ideas of maybe it's this or maybe it's that but nothing they could really do much about because he has liver disease and they don't wan to give him certain meds. They also took him off of the Ativan, when he got liver disease. AnD gave him an antidepressant..which didn't seem to help.
Now the doctor gave him trazadone..i hope i got that name right.i;l have to check it. Anyway , It's supposed to help with sleep , anxiety and pain. It seem the past two days he has calmed down. He has slept though most of the night. Which is a help because that's when he's the worst.
SO I'm thinking, maybe the aggression isn't totally caused by the Dementia, but also by the fact that he is in pain, He is been anxious and had the ativan taken away, and he has never really been treated for the Obsessive worrying..which i still think is OCD. SO I'm thinking we need a new Psychiatrist. One that will realize that the opinions of the family the people who see him every day , should count for something..specially when one of those people happens to have OCD herself. It's not like i just read about it one day and decided he has it. I've seen it my whole life.
ANwhows. Sorry if I'm babbling, I'm tired.LOL But i think the psychiatric part of it is being missed right now, and we have to fix that,
Thanks for pointing that out, And I will ask about a Geriatric psych evaluation .
thanks,
Susan

This message has been edited. Last edited by: slms,

quote:

Originally posted by mae:
UTI means urinary tract infection, sory.I would do research on abilify.It is knew.Not to be used for anyone with dementia.Also is to be used with another drug that is prescribed for the same symptoms but not giving the complete result.Being such a new drug they really do not know the long term affects.Can cause a change in emotions .
Look up abilify and read what is said.
http://www.abilify.com/
Also my mother was given Geodon which is suppose to be a no no for elders with dementia.Well, it was the only meds that worked .It took three years to get the correct meds.This was done after having her admittttted to a behavioral unit of a local hospital.Let me say , she was in another well known hopitals, suppose to be so well informed.She came home worse.I knew more then they did.After that experience, I fired the doctor who who sent her there and told the social worker not to come witin a mile of my home.Become informed.You have got to be the advocate for them.If I had not had these people on this forum I would have believed every thing a doctor said and know nothing.They took me out of the world of ill informed

THanks for the info on Abilify. But i did look it up prior to the Psychiatrist giving it to him. I thought he was nuts!I was fuming actually. It says don't use for Dementia and elderly and can cause blood sugar to be high, and he's diabetic!. But then we talked to the PCP who is also a geriatric doc ..I don't know if i said that before. ANd he said that they use that a lot on the elderly patients with dementia, and they closely monitor them, because it helps them a lot, so he said the Psych was right . I looked it up and I did find that doctors for the elderly do , do this. SO we thought Okay if the two doctors are agreeing, and he does need something badly we will try it and make sure they watch him.
The thing is I realized I don't think the Abilify has caused the extra aggression because that's why he was prescribed it in the first place. We called 911 because he hit my mom, and this was before the ABilify. But I don't think it' s helping him either and it doens't make sense for him to take something that is potentially dangerous if it's not even helping.
ANd yeah though my own illness i have learned not to trust doctors as far as i can throw them. I mean for educated people they can be downright stupid sometimes. I always thought when i was little that doctors knew everything and you should do what they order. Well after 10 years of going doc to doc, getting misdiagnosed and dismissed as being healthy when I was sick, Being put on meds that gave me horrible side effects, and not being warned, I realize I had to educate myself, to help myself. And now unfortunately I have to do this fro my Dad.
AND I thank you guys fro the help and support you' re giving me.
Susan

UTI means urinary tract infection, sory.I would do research on abilify.It is knew.Not to be used for anyone with dementia.Also is to be used with another drug that is prescibed for the same symptoms but not giving the complete result.Being such a new drug they really do not know the long term affects.Can cause a change in emotions .
Look up abilify and read what is said.
http://www.abilify.com/
Also my mother was given Geodon which is suppose to be a no no for elders with dementia.Well, it was the only meds that worked .It took three years to get the correct meds.This was done after having her admittttted to a behavioral unit of a local hospital.Let me say , she was in another well known hopitals, suppose to be so well informed.She came home worse.I knew more then they did.After that experience, I fired the doctor who who sent her there and told the social worker not to come witin a mile of my home.Become informed.You have got to be the advocate for them.If I had not had these people on this forum I would have believed every thing a doctor said and know nothing.They took me out of the world of ill informed

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mae,

quote:

Or like you guys said maybe it is causing him to be more aggressive or making the dementia worse.

I went through this with MIL on some of these drugs because she had existing psych issues from way back although these bouts were when we were trying AD meds as well as that dreaded Haladol *God save us all from that dang drug!*
Abilify, I dont think it was out yet when we started Psychotropic class drugs.
I hate to be so blunt but did dad have psych issues to begin with before the diagnosis?
The reason why I ask is that I believe they have less of a tolerance for some drugs and is the reason they react so quickly to certain drugs.
Most drugs take about 3-4 weeks to see any kind of effect where as psych patients react within a 2 week period, could this be the case?
You stated he's always had problems in the past just not what those problems were.
Something for you to think about cause really I feel your pain, I felt like I was banging my head against a wall with MIL
First get him tested for a UTI like Mae said (Thanks again Mae ) this is VERY important to rule out first.
If its not a UTI talk to dads PCP and ask for a referral to a Geriatric psych evaluation.
Write down everything about dad and his behaviors prior to the diagnosis and after as well as his behaviors with the new meds.
When I spoke to our County's Mental health dept. it did make a difference to them when it came to prior behaviors of MIL so its important you be as honest as you can hun.
Take off your "dad glasses" and really examine past behavior I cant stress this enough.
Good luck and keep us posted

quote:

Originally posted by Bobcat:
Hi, Susan, welcome to ECO. It does seem like you are in a poor position to be of much help to your mom and dad. All the more admirable that you are trying.

As mentioned by Moms_Buddy, there is a lot of information here that can help you get a perspective on his behavior. While it may not change his disease, it may change how it is handled and that can make a great difference, both in the home and just as importantly, at the doctor's office.

Did they just recognized his symptoms as dementia but proceeded to treat him for Alz without further testing? Often that happens and the actual cause goes untreated. Like BG and Op, I think a change of doc is in order, especially if that was the case, along with an appointment with a specialist, a neurologist familiar with geriatric disorders.

This will be almost impossible to achieve unless you, your brother, or your mother holds DPOA for him. The other route, as mentioned, would be through protective services or a trip to the emergency room when one becomes necessary for other reasons.

In the meanwhile, I hope some of the information you will find here helps you. A good place to start is
http://www.ec-online.net/alzchannel.htm
You may wish to take special notice of this article, but all of them are important.
http://www.ec-online.net/Knowl...ticles/agitation.htm

(and don't worry about typos, a few of us are almost OC about our own, but none of us judge each other based on that)

"Did they just recognized his symptoms as dementia but proceeded to treat him for Alz without further testing?"
Yes that's exactly what they did. I didn't like that from the beginning. I kept telling my Mom that he should have further testing..what do they mean by dementia etc etc but at the time i was not well at all and she was handling everything herself. She kept saying he's a good doctor and she really liked him. SO I guess she was satisfied.
I"m not. I would have talked to him more when i was a t the office but they took me out to talk to the social worker and when I got back he was gone. I supposed after I get a list together of what i want to discuss with him I'll call and to talk to him. MY MOM keeps getting his Nurse. Then the nurse will talk to the doctor and get back to her. MY MOm likes it because the nurse is very understanding and truly wants to help. But i think if you call your doctor you should be able to speak to the doctor.I could call the nurse myself and say that I want to talk to his doctor directly this time.
If he is not able to talk with me or doesn't answer my questions to my satisfaction I'll tell MOM I think it' s time for a new doc.
You mentioned a specialist, What kind of specialist specifically?
Also how do you know if a neurologist is familiar with geriatric disorders? or is there a special name fro them? sorry for the dumb questiosn but i really have no idea about his stuff.
thanks fro the help and support.
ANd for the links also.,I'll check them out.

quote:

Originally posted by mae:
Sims, when husband had a uti he became violent.One time was so bad I called 911.When the symptoms were know he was placed in a behavioral unit of the hospital.They were able to monitor his behavior after the infection was gone they reconize the type of paranois psychosis he had and prescribed.
My mother had the same experience and after along hard battle we qwere able to have the same doctor who cared for my husband diagnois her.Oncwe her meds got into her system she was doing so fine.It took along time to get her the riht meds.This doctor stepped out side the box and gave her meds they use for another mental problem.The meds for hubby leveled his behavior.His worst times happened when he had a uti.Also had to be placed on meds for depression. Unfortunately if the affliced is not properly diagnoised the wrong meds are prescribed and the symptoms can become worse.
Agood psychiatrist will take interest and find meds that will work .Many times it takes a while to see changes.You have to become familiar with the person to know if the changes are for the better or worse.If the meds make them want to sleep all the time, reject them.That is no life for anyone.It is not easy when you are dealing with your own health issues.
When they are not able to communicate what they feel with meds you and brother will have to look for signs of change.Meds can be your best friend or worst enemy.

What is Uti? I"m not familiar.
Well actually my Dad does have liver problems and when he was first put in the hospital, He had a high ammonia level, from hepatic encephalopathy. That in itself can cause dementia, They did bring down his ammonia level in the hospital , and he did do better in the hospital, and a week or so at home. Who knows maybe the ammonia went back up? I mean I know It's an ongoing condition ..it's be worth it to tell the doc to test the ammonia level. Thanks for making me think of that.
AND I wasn't happy with the diagnosis. Now from talking to you guys I know I need more than they gave me. They are not giving me a cause at all. And not really telling us anything about it. PHew this is overwhelming..I"m gonna have to go back after replying to the posts here and make a list of what I need to do. The good thing is you guys have given my ideas on what I cna do,
thanks for your help!
Susan

quote:

Originally posted by Bunnys_grl:

quote:

SO he was good the first 2 weeks, but a little snappy. Okay I could live with that. BUt little by little it just went back to the way it was. Not really a surprise to me. SO this week I called 911..again, after he was putting his hands around my Mom's neck. She says it wasn't hard..that doesn't matter. I called. They said they couldn't take him to the hospital without his consent, because he was able to think for himself.

Uh no he can not think for himself WT*!
Sorry for that lil blow out but your Dad is diagnosed by his own PCP yes?
Id be screaming at someone...well maybe not screaming but Id sure be shaking some bodies up to get them to listen.
He does not belong in jail he does however need another Psych evaluation in some OTHER facility not the one he was tested at.
And that drug Abilify, what does it look like to you Susan? Is it working or not?
If not tell his PCP its not working and its having a derogatory effect on Dad.
Not all meds work the same on everyone its a crap shoot and they should have tested these drugs in that evaluation in the first place which is why Im saying your dad needs to be tested at a different facility with someone who specializes in Geriatrics.
If you dont get anywhere with dads PCP then call the county health dept. in your area to get some help I just dealt with these folks with my own MIL they know their stuff
For the time being try to give dad as much space as humanly possible, sleep behind locked doors and mom needs to camp out with you for the time being she might be the catalyst to his anger.
Now start making phone calls tomorrow morning (((HUGS)))

HI. Yeah He was diagnosed by his PCP.
Well, I wasn't screaming yet yet but I was expecting to get help and direction at the time from the social worker. But it was kind of like talking to a politician, what they say sounds reasonable at first and later on you think of it, and you realize they really didn't tell you anything.
YOu know, the ABilify doesn't seem to be doing anything to me. I mean "They" the ones at the hospital that released him because they said it was helping..I think he might have been calmer because he wanted to go home, or maybe he liked getting fussed over so much.
He was calmer at home at first but like i said it didn't last long. Ubviously it's not doing anything, Or like you guys said maybe it is causing him to be more aggressive or making the dementia worse. SO why is he on it? I'm glad you brought it up. I'll call the PCP and tell him its not working and it could be having a derogatory effect on him.
The county health dept? Okay I'll look it up and call.
thanks for your advice and support. It helps having someone understand.
Susan

quote:

Sims, when husband had a uti he became violent

Oh Good call Mae! That completely slipped my mind!

Sims, when husband had a uti he became violent.One time was so bad I called 911.When the symptoms were know he was placed in a behavioral unit of the hospital.They were able to monitor his behavior after the infection was gone they reconize the type of paranois psychosis he had and prescribed.
My mother had the same experience and after along hard battle we qwere able to have the same doctor who cared for my husband diagnois her.Oncwe her meds got into her system she was doing so fine.It took along time to get her the riht meds.This doctor stepped out side the box and gave her meds they use for another mental problem.The meds for hubby leveled his behavior.His worst times happened when he had a uti.Also had to be placed on meds for depression. Unfortunately if the affliced is not properly diagnoised the wrong meds are prescribed and the symptoms can become worse.
Agood psychiatrist will take interest and find meds that will work .Many times it takes a while to see changes.You have to become familiar with the person to know if the changes are for the better or worse.If the meds make them want to sleep all the time, reject them.That is no life for anyone.It is not easy when you are dealing with your own health issues.
When they are not able to communicate what they feel with meds you and brother will have to look for signs of change.Meds can be your best friend or worst enemy.

Hi, Susan, welcome to ECO. It does seem like you are in a poor position to be of much help to your mom and dad. All the more admirable that you are trying.

As mentioned by Moms_Buddy, there is a lot of information here that can help you get a perspective on his behavior. While it may not change his disease, it may change how it is handled and that can make a great difference, both in the home and just as importantly, at the doctor's office.

Did they just recognized his symptoms as dementia but proceeded to treat him for Alz without further testing? Often that happens and the actual cause goes untreated. Like BG and Op, I think a change of doc is in order, especially if that was the case, along with an appointment with a specialist, a neurologist familiar with geriatric disorders.

This will be almost impossible to achieve unless you, your brother, or your mother holds DPOA for him. The other route, as mentioned, would be through protective services or a trip to the emergency room when one becomes necessary for other reasons.

In the meanwhile, I hope some of the information you will find here helps you. A good place to start is
http://www.ec-online.net/alzchannel.htm
You may wish to take special notice of this article, but all of them are important.
http://www.ec-online.net/Knowl...ticles/agitation.htm

(and don't worry about typos, a few of us are almost OC about our own, but none of us judge each other based on that)

I second all of Bunny Girl's advice. Supervise so your Mom is not in physical danger and talk to their physician, pronto. Don't let them shrug it off -- emphasize the physical assaults he's making on everyone. That does require special care and in my inexpert opinion, professional facilities for his safety and the family's.

I'm not sure, but I think when they say he has to be admitted from the hospital, it has to do with qualifying for Medicare. I know my Mom had to stay in the acute care hospital for three days before she could be transferred to a nursing home for further rehabilitation.

Don't feel bad about typos. Nobody's grading and it's not unusual for people to be upset when they post. Best of luck to all of you. :-)

Welcome, Susan! Don't worry about typos - ya don't have to have any kind of disease at all for your fingers to get going faster (or slower) than your brain!

PLEASE do some reading here about dementia. It is not a disease in and of itself, but rather, a collection of symptoms that are caused by another degenerative process. It is the physical, behavioral & cognitive manifestations you observe when someone's brain is dying cell by cell.

Violence is not uncommon and should NEVER be ignored or downplayed. It sounds like your father is "sundowning," a puzzling condition where a person becomes agitated from late afternoon on... If you search the forum here for "sundowning" or "sundowner's" you will find a lot of discussion about it.

Is your father on medicare or medicaid? The rules and guidelines for placement can be maddening!! It is not as simple as having the doctor put someone in the hospital because of the way the system is structured. You can learn a lot about this by reading in the Legal and Financial issues forum here.

Getting a person placed in a facility involuntarily is difficult. Each state and county have their own guidelines about involuntary placement. Some places have great facilities; others have none. A social worker should be able to explain about this to you. It sounds kinda looney, but a psych facility is not the place for him (he isn't insane) and a nursing home or ALF may not accept him because of his propensity for violence against others. It's damned if you do and damned if you don't!! Totally frustrating!!

I'd suggest that if he has not already done so, arrange for him to see a geriatric neurologist and get a good inpatient psych workup. It usually takes around 10 days for all the specialists to interview, test, discuss and decide on a diagnosis and course of therapy for him.

Since your mother is still alive, SHE is his next of kin and needs to see an attorney who specializes in elder law, especially if she does not have a DPOA (Durable Power of Attorney). In many cases, there's simply nothing one can do until the country orders a competency hearing or someone petitions the court for guardianship on the grounds that he is incompetent to make decisions for himself.

You can call elder protection services when he becomes violent with your mom. Sometimes, getting them involved is the only way to get someone the help they need.

Good luck!!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Moms_Buddy,

quote:

SO he was good the first 2 weeks, but a little snappy. Okay I could live with that. BUt little by little it just went back to the way it was. Not really a surprise to me. SO this week I called 911..again, after he was putting his hands around my Mom's neck. She says it wasn't hard..that doesn't matter. I called. They said they couldn't take him to the hospital without his consent, because he was able to think for himself.

Uh no he can not think for himself WT*!
Sorry for that lil blow out but your Dad is diagnosed by his own PCP yes?
Id be screaming at someone...well maybe not screaming but Id sure be shaking some bodies up to get them to listen.
He does not belong in jail he does however need another Psych evaluation in some OTHER facility not the one he was tested at.
And that drug Abilify, what does it look like to you Susan? Is it working or not?
If not tell his PCP its not working and its having a derogatory effect on Dad.
Not all meds work the same on everyone its a crap shoot and they should have tested these drugs in that evaluation in the first place which is why Im saying your dad needs to be tested at a different facility with someone who specializes in Geriatrics.
If you dont get anywhere with dads PCP then call the county health dept. in your area to get some help I just dealt with these folks with my own MIL they know their stuff
For the time being try to give dad as much space as humanly possible, sleep behind locked doors and mom needs to camp out with you for the time being she might be the catalyst to his anger.
Now start making phone calls tomorrow morning (((HUGS)))