I don't know if this is the proper place to post this question. My dad has not officially been diagnosed with dementia, but we (my sister and me) can see definite changes with him. He is 81 and (knock on wood) in relatively good health but has had some lightheadness (almost fainted), lots of confusion, etc.

Last weekend I was with him at his former house (he still owns it but has moved into a retirement community). We are trying to sell furniture and do fixups to either sell or rent the house. My mom has passed away, so my dad lives alone.

I found him on a 6' ladder reaching up another 5' to clean some louvres over the kitchen window. We have spoken him about ladders before (caught him going up 25' to the roof line on an extension ladder)and he had promised he wouldn't go on ladders anymore. I flipped out (probably not the right thing to do) told him to get down and I would clean the louvres, to which he agreed. I was so angry with him and I told him I was furious. He just doesn't care.

I told my sister about this. She said she would speak with him. I also sent him an article from AARP/Yale study about the elderly falling (which he well knows since he said over half of the people where he lives now have had hip replacements or worse due to falls).

My sister called him today. He told her neither she nor me can tell him what to do and he will continue to go on the ladder.

I feel like he's really in danger, and oh, by the way, he will be doing this ALONE in a house that is out in a remote area.

I thought we could go to the house and take the ladders which would give him no options (except to borrow the neighbor's but he would be too embarassed to ask).

I feel responsible knowing that he is doing something that is in such terrible judgment and could kill him.

This may sound trivial to you with some of the things you have to deal with (I have read some posts), but I don't know where else to seek advice. Any thoughts or ideas? He's a difficult hardhead: reason and logic are not working. Thanks in advance for thoughts.

quote:

I just envy those with families who care about each other

I know but you know what, it scares the crap outta me! LMAO!
Not that I envy them, I dont do envy so maybe its a little admiration who knows but man there was a sayin I remember well....
"You never know what goes on behind closed doors"
Also a country song by my man The Silver Fox AKA Charlie Rich.....wadda man!
Glad to make you chuckle that means I did my job.
Pay me in cookies

dit, honey...........
if you allow people to treat you like a doormat, they will treat you like a doormat.
Don't allow it. Ever. Tell yourself first that you are NOT a doormat, and you WILL NOT be treated as if you are one. At first you might be very uncomfortable with confrontation, so it might be better just to step out of the way and let things unfold as they will, but they will eventually see that "the kid's" opinions have some merit, and it DOES matter.
Now, cross your arms, put one hand on each shoulder and give yourself a big hug. You've earned it.

quote:

You admired her, she left a lasting impression on you, she taught you what family should be like, so it begs the question what would she have done if your dad and sister acted like this towards her?

My dad idolized her, put her on a pedestal. That is something positive I can definitively say about him. She definitely recognized some of his "issues" but was not one to disparage our father in front of us (maybe just a little at the end). What an angel she was! As far as what she would have done? None of this would be happening if she was here. She was the glue. My sister was awful to her toward the end of mom's life, and it really hurt her. She didn't complain, she just got the shaft from my sister. And she was suffering enough without my sister's selfish antics. But it is what it is. At this point, I am ostracized by them. No call, no write, no contact. I am the bad guy, even when I am the one who should be angry and they should be apologizing. My sister just doesn't care about anyone except herself and $. So that's it. I have tried. I did share my feelings with them but just got dissed. Interacting with them is hurting me over and over again. I just have to detach, recover from it and stay away. I'm the only one who will care. I put myself in a position where I got treated like a doormat and that became business as usual. I guess I helped to create it because I jumped when anyone said to or when I felt jumping was required. Obviously, if there was an emergency I would not neglect my dad. But where I was a good daughter and had no regrets about my mother, I don't feel compelled anymore to provide my dad with that sort of support and attention. And he doesn't want it anyway, unless he wants something in particular RIGHT NOW and then of course whatever I do won't be good enough, so I'll just get criticized when I reach out to help. Something's wrong with that picture.

I just envy those with families who care about each other (and yes I know every family has its share of dysfunction, but it would be nice to have at least dysfunction with caring participants!). I should have been part of my uncle/aunt's family on my mom's side. We share the same values. But I guess that wouldn't have been possible, would it have!!!

Bunny's grl, you made me laugh with your comment. Thanks for doing that, I needed a laugh today!

quote:

I'm just an odd duck in this family scheme

Boy now theres some words I can relate to!

Hun I think those of us that have walked this walk feel so bad to hear this story over an over again that we are usually the first ones to jump up and say try it just one more time...
We know people dont change just like that but Iv seen it its not impossible....
I think in some way we dont want you to feel when its all said an done you find yourself saying "What if??"
Like I asked, what would your mom have done?
You admired her, she left a lasting impression on you, she taught you what family should be like, so it begs the question what would she have done if your dad and sister acted like this towards her?
You are who you are today because of what she taught you.
My Gran wasnt a very demonstrative person but she did manage an I love you when I was 9 years old...let me also say, she raised me.
I know my gran loved me she just wasnt very big on the words or actions...I mean really, if I got a hug outta that woman something woulda imploded! I am the direct opposite...her way of showing her affection would be to allow you in her home Hmmm wait a minute....Ok maybe I do have a little of her in me LOL!
What Im trying to say here is that just maybe your dad and sis are a little like my gran was.
I mean they cant be all that bad if your mom tolerated them right?

My Husband passed 5/20/7 but I remember one night that has always stayed with me. He was standing in the hallway 5'9" 125 lbs.in his shorts with his fists clenched completely lucid and said "I am still a man and will NOT be treated as a child!" He used to be 6' and always strong with a great sense of humor. The dementia had taken him down physically but in that moment he was as I remember him before the dementia. He had pushed the walker up the hall and said "he would walk!" I knew he could posibly fall but also understood his manhood was at stake.
I stood up and said "yes, but can you help me?"
perhaps your father just wants to be useful to continue to feel like a man. Perhaps if you ask him if he could oversee some things at the old house and make sure that there is someone there that he can tell them what to do. Might make a difference.

quote:

I know you feel like walking away, but before you do, give it one last shot and try to get these issues resolved as you would try to negotiate any other matter.

I appreciate the replies. How do I explain this? It's really not possible to resolve issues when the other parties truly don't care, is it? It takes two to tango, and otherwise you dance around alone. That's the gist of it and what hurts the most, the complete and utter disregard and apathy concerning my feelings. I think I need to accept it and move on, regardless of how foreign it feels. I'm just an odd duck in this family scheme. You can't force others to have regard for you when they just don't.

And just because they're family, you don't have to like them!
Deep in your heart you may love them because they ARE family, but give yourself a break here.
If they were completely unrelated neighbors, how much time would you spend in coversation with them, or try to be closer friends? What about the "strange one in the corner" at work (come one, every office has one)?
I know you feel like walking away, but before you do, give it one last shot and try to get these issues resolved as you would try to negotiate any other matter. You wouldn't let yourself be trampled on if you had a property dispute (with that imaginary neighbor) and had the proper documentation to back it up, would you?
I'm in no way suggesting that you treat your Dad as a piece of property, but right now I can't get words and ideas from my brain to my fingers, so I hope no one here takes great offense.
("But officer, I can explain.........!)
I'll try better next time.

quote:

I cannot even fathom their thinking

dit, my mother and brother go as far as calling me the "Alien" of the family because I am practical and well, they are not. Yes, they say it with a smile, like it's funny, but it still hurts and I have told them so. You are not alone.

As far as walking away, I have not, but I think about it every day.

quote:

Have any of you walked away?

Yes as a matter of fact I have...
After my mom died what was left was not even something I considered "family" at least not how I was raised.
Was there regret? Not at all.
I remember the night my oldest brother died (almost a year to the day my mom passed) he had treated me with such disregard all my life, when he died I did cry but not for the reason you would think....I cried for the brother I never had.
Cold? I dont think so.
Family doesnt have to be blood to be "family" my dear it just has to have a common goal and spirit.
But for the sake of your mom dit I think you ought to have a face to face with both your dad and sister and tell them how you feel, really feel inside.
Dont shut down on them, thats what they are doing.
What would your mom have done had she been in your shoes right now?
Would she have sat back and watched or would she have said something?

I decided to delete this posting. It was way too much detail and I was way too upset when I wrote it.

But I do believe for my own sanity, I need to walk away. It's just wrong to be treated so badly and keep coming back for more...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: dit,

Touche`.

quote:

Oh, I love the assertiveness lesson. How about this:

"Mom, would you like to live in a smaller apartment or move in with your son?"

"Well, daughter, I would like to stay right where I am and for you to give me money every time I spend beyond my means."

"Sorry mom, that's not an option. Pick the apartment or the son's house."

Not an assertiveness lesson at all - it's supposed to be about good communication. Since you don't want your mom to move in with you nor do you want to donate to her upkeep, there's nothing to assert.

Oh, I love the assertiveness lesson. How about this:

"Mom, would you like to live in a smaller apartment or move in with your son?"

"Well, daughter, I would like to stay right where I am and for you to give me money every time I spend beyond my means."

"Sorry mom, that's not an option. Pick the apartment or the son's house."

quote:

As others can attest, this is one of my BIGTIME peeves - regarding & comparing elderly people to children - so I look for opportunities to hold forth on the issue. Big Grin It's not only (unwittingly) demeaning and disrespectful, it's so completely inaccurate!!

Heeehehehehe
Oh yeah this is MB thru n thru its also me too
I hate when people refer to our lo's as children or childish and Iv heard it A LOT
And yet another peeve of mine is when folks refer to Depends as "diapers"
Oy
Let me assure everyone that their parents dont want to hear their adult "children" refer to their undergarments in such a manner so I "politely" remind each and every person that makes that mistake in my realm of what they SHOULD be called.

And now that we have verified what MB's pet peeve and mine too
Next!

Hey Dit:
Assertive language lesson #1
Instead of asking a question make a statement. sound sincere, even if you dont know the answer sound like you do.
Our LO's need to have basic faith that the people in charge of their care know what to do when to do and how to do it...
Lets start with basics like meal prep:
Dad would you like eggs or oatmeal this morning....
Never start with "Are you hungry/what would you like" you can give choices BUT only 2, more than that gets confusing.
If they try to give a suggestion you repeat
"Sorry dad I have to go shopping, its eggs or oatmeal"
Even if your not out of something you stick with what you planned in the first place an lie your butt off

On the off chance this doc doesnt abide by HIPPA laws remind him what you tell him is to be held in the strictest of confidences that you are trying not to get your father upset and you would appreciate his cooperation but if he cant abide by that....

If my MIL's PCP steps out of line he/she is replaced without a backwards glance Im that anal when it comes to privacy and I do warn them all in advance what they can and can not do.
Please advise his PCP that he is starting to be a danger to himself (electrical repairs) maybe its time he had a psych evaluation hun if he hasnt already.

Thanks, Dochka, I'm going to forward that on to my in-laws to read, that's about where my mother-in-law is now. Sometimes redirecting works, and since we know so much about her we can come up with something to talk about that's different. Also, thanks, Bobcat! That is a sad sad story about your Dad dying thinking your Mom was declining. Wow. It is so difficult for them when they are terminal and worried so about their spouse they are leaving behind. Adds to their stress level, and ours, as we try to console them.
I so enjoy reading what people have to say on this forum, over the past few years it's been very helpful to me as I struggle with our aging parents.
I did buy the book "Elder Rage - or, Take my Father, PLEASE!" by Jacqueline Marcell. It was really good!
Thanks to everyone!

Susan,
Here is an article from ECOnline about how to communicate effectively with a difficult parent.

I hope this helps some.

http://www.ec-online.net/Commu...fficultbehaviors.htm

Susan, anytime you want to, if you ever do, you are more than welcome to post about your mother in the Wings section. Maybe Memorials. Give it some thought.

My mother has a little more than the average age related cognitive decline (maybe not, I do know some elders that are very sharp in their mid 90s, but most have some trouble.). TIAs have done some extra damage, but she has the same personality, likes sweets more.

You have my sincere condolences for your loss. My Dad had a non Hodgkins Lymphoma on the lower spine. He fought tooth and nail with chemo and radiation, was thoroughly ticked whn they said he was a poor surgery candidate, even though he was in his late 80s.

Thoughts have fallen into place since then about "why". This hit me hard just the other day when I spoke to a hospice representative about Mom. Mom had been misdiagnosed with Alzheimer's a few years before Dad's cancer appeared. (TIAs went undetected, untreated, thus one of MY pet peeves ) . He died thinking she had AD and was so worried about how she would be cared for. That was 7/12/2002.

We all have "pet peeves". There may be a thread on that in the archives that should be revived.

Angels have certainly carried your mother home. I know they wait for mine.

If I hadn't said it before, please let me say it now, "Welcome to ECO, Susan S., glad to meet you."

Oh, YOU didn't say I was harsh but for lack of a better word I chose that one. I understand your feelings about it, really I do. My Dad isn't suffering from dementia, just a little normal old age forgetfulness and unwillingness to adapt to his "new normal". I can really find it in myself to sympathize with him as I know it's a hard adjustment for him to make, being incapacitated and unable to do for himself anymore. Our trip to the ortho today pretty much summed it up, nothing will help his pain except shoulder replacement and knee replacement (all of them!) and we will be seeing his primary care next week to discuss more pain management options for him (he has liver and kidney issues so they are limited). This forum is a great place to go and see that you are not alone, and you see how even though we are the same, we are also very different. What works for one might not work for another, and the love and concern I see here is helpful even if the methods might not be. Most of the people on here are dealing with a loved one who is much worse than my Dad mentally. I looked for a forum for just general caring for an aging parent but couldn't find one. I get the impression from your signature that you and your Mom had a good relationship in her last years, and I hope that is true. The six months my Mom battled a stage 4 brain tumor were difficult because she was the sweetest person in the world, and I hated so much seeing her suffer. I could definitely say the same thing about her as you do about your Mom. She got her wings 4/24/99. I just know the Lord sent his angels to carry her home.

quote:

I can understand where the statement I made sounds harsh

Sorry if I gave you that impression, Susan. I don't think you meant to be harsh and I hope you don't think that I am... As others can attest, this is one of my BIGTIME peeves - regarding & comparing elderly people to children - so I look for opportunities to hold forth on the issue. It's not only (unwittingly) demeaning and disrespectful, it's so completely inaccurate!! I hear people do this in real life and it's no wonder to me that they can't get much cooperation going on! Whether our elders have a progressive condition impairing cognition or not, they will never be children nor respond like them. At some points, they may seem childLIKE in their sweetness and innocence or fussiness, as a result of diminishing abilities, but they are always going to be different from kids because they have been all the way through adulthood and are declining on the other side. This FREQUENTLY leads to quarrels, resentment, frustration and miscommunication with elderly parents.

When we communicate with our parents, it is often based on parent/child style communication. Some families never make it past this point... The kids never regard their parents as adult peers and the parents never regard their kids as adult peers. So they argue, miscommunicate, piss one another off and often mean no offense - they are simply taking the wrong tack with one another. HOW we say what we say to them has a lot to do with the response we get... When we communicate with them from the role of parent and speak to them as a child, they feel resentful. It's a tough row to hoe!

Since they are not going to change their style, it's left to us to change the way we relate and communicate with them. It helped me a lot to observe the way talented (note the qualifier: many are NOT talented!) professional health care workers (aides, nurses, PT therapists, etc.) communicate with their elderly patients. In so many cases, I was frustrated because they could get more cooperation from my mom than I could... Then I realized that our relationship and patterns of communication were causing a lot of the problem. I learned to phrase my questions differently; to make statements instead of asking questions; to give SIMPLE choices (A or B); to keep on-subject when they wander; to change the subject when they get stuck on something; to ignore unkind statements; to refuse to be drawn into arguments; to answer a question for the 42nd time in an hour with the same patience as I did the first time; to emotionally detach myself; etc. I learned to anticipate certain patterns of behavior between us and nip things in the bud... Kinda like the old saying, if ya don't let the SH get started, the IT won't follow.

Understanding and adapting to the changes in our relationships with our elderly parents has a great deal to do with keeping them as cooperative and content as possible and not driving ourselves as crazy in the process of caring for them.