Hello there. I am at a loss and would appreciate any advice anyone has.

My mom is 76 years old and in good health. She is semi-retired, working a part time job making about $200 a month in part time income. She also gets a $1450 Social Security check each month.

A few years ago, before she retired (forced due to firing), she was having problems with the increasing rent and the lack of attention the landlords gave to problems in the apartment.

My husband and I helped her out by finding a condo that was to her specifications (HAD to have 2 bedrooms, HAD to have attached garage, HAD to have 2 bathrooms, HAD to be 2nd floor or higher, etc.) She did not have the $ for a down payment, so we bought the place and had her pay the mortgage + association + taxes + insurance, as there was no way we could afford to pay our own mortgage and these fees as well. She was okay with this and from the get go, we had told her that we would own the condo and eventually continue to rent it out to her or someone else until we were ready to retire and then we would move in.
She was OK with this THEN. Now, she is looking at her situation and she only has so much money in the bank from her 401K and realizes that some day she is going to run out of money.
My husband and I have tried to reason with her and convince her to look for an apartment that has less rent. However, this would mean going down to a 1 bedroom, possibly not having an attached garage (or any garage at all), etc.
She REFUSES to find something that costs less and just wants me and my husband to reduce her rent.
My husband (who is a bit controlling), has tried to come up with "Options" for her that don't completely mess up financially, but may help her stay in the condo (her preffered choice) for a little less money.
However, there are conditions on the options, such as: she has to pay the year's worth of rent up front, but can pay $1200 instead of $1350 and he gives her deadlines of when she has to decide this by, or he will not renew her lease. There have been a few deals like this that she has said she would take and then backed out at the last minute.
She also is a spender. My husband and I are very practical and do spend money, but only if we have it.
She has been known to spend $70 on a pair of cashmere earmuffs. And then, she turns around and tells us we should give her money to help pay for the condo.

Basically, I am stuck in the middle.
I don't agree that my Mom spends her money foolishly and won't be realistic about finding a place to live that is less money.
I don't 100% agree will all of the "deals" my husband offers my mom. They do benefit her is some way, but are also pretty stringent. I know that he does this because he wants to help, but doesn't like feeling like he is being taken advantage of. I can't disagree with him there. I know my mom isn't MEANING to take advantage, but she is willing to stick her hand out, but not try to help herself.
I have one sibling - a brother. He does not have much money himself and can't help financially, but believes my mom should have WHATEVER she wants (within reason). He thinks she SHOULD get a 2 bedroom place if she WANTS it, he thinks she should RECARPET a rental even though it doesn't need new carpeting. However, he is not paying for these things. She is and she is running out of money. Basically he agrees that my husband and I should help my mom out financially. I don't think it's fair and I HATE being stuck in the middle.
I've thought about divorcing my husband (and he's threatened a couple of times), but I DO love him and he's actually really good to me, just not really willing to give my Mom everything she wants.
I've sided with my husband on most everything so far, because he will divorce me if I don't and I do see his viewpoint.
If it were just me and no husband, I would probably end up in the poor house paying for everything my Mom wanted me to. I'm kind of a push over.
I don't know what to do anymore.
I'm at a total loss.

quote:

I just want mom to get it together and stop sabotaging herself

She may not be ABLE to do this, dear. As people age, even without brain destroying neurological diseases, cognitive abilities DO decline somethat and the ability to be flexible and make changes declines. You may be expecting and asking more than she can deliver... So many times, we've all sat down with our LOs, discussed things with them, they SEEM to understand, they PROMISE to do better and yet they are unable to do so. They truly want to cooperate and to please us, but they CAN'T - that's why it's just not fair to set OUR expectations higher than what they can deliver on... It makes them feel badly that they can't ever seem to please us and we end up looking like stormtroopers! Accepting that sometimes they CAN'T and we should stop expecting them to do so can be a emancipating path for all concerned. Good luck!

MB, The "gentle" approach is really hard for me. I know - boo hoo for me. I think I'm having such an anger problem right now. I just want mom to get it together and stop sabotaging herself and thinking it's okay to spend money she doesn't have. It's just so hard for me to find a middle ground. I feel like, if I give even a little, she will will want more - what's the saying, give an inch and they'll want to take a mile? That's how I feel. I don't have a mile to give and I can't be her knight in shining armor. I need to keep praying for strength, wisdom and patience with mom, the situation, and everyone involved including myself.

quote:

She and I had agreed that she wouldn't use them anymore, yet she had a hissy fit when I gathered them up and put them in an envelope. She wants to leave them open after paying the balances (to preserve her credit - hee hee) and ALSO keep them in her wallet. WHAT? SERIOUSLY? I told her she can't use them and she said yes, I know, but couldn't stand to not have them in her wallet. One hour fight on that one.

I understand that what you are doing is in your mom's interest - I hadda do it with mine - but PLEASE understand that she has feelings!! Not having ANY credit cards in her wallet is unthinkable! Make SOME sort of compromise and if you want her cooperation, try to preserve her dignity!!! I left Mom with cards like the Hallmark Store, department stores we didn't have in this area, etc. I actually wanted to take away her danged PURSE because hauling it around was one more thing for ME to have to keep up with, but a woman NEEDS her purse...

Your mom may not define "emergency" the same way as you, but she does need to feel as independent as possible. THESE are the kinds of issues that can either allow an elder to transition into a more dependent lifestyle with grace or plunge them kicking and screaming into a situation where the next phase will be deep depression! HOW it is handled with them makes ALL the difference! This isn't a time to "make" mom behave the way you've wanted her to all these years! It's a time when you have to GENTLY take the reins and help her through so that she will trust you and not view you as her adversary!!!

Bobcat, in a normal situation, that may be a good idea, but I'm pretty sure she will use the prepaid card for non-emergencies. Her idea of an emergency is much different than most people's idea of an emergency.

Get some rest, interesting that she pays her insurance premium but not her cards. No way for me to know but I bet you are the beneficiary of one and your brother is the other. That is another thing to consider. This could be tricky.

I mentioned this to another poster, entirely different issue, but maybe she could have a prepaid card for emergencies and peace of mind.

Ah, good question BC. I don't know which kind of "life" they are. I would definitely look into it prior to doing anything hasty. Neither are paid up. She is paying on both. That's why I wanted to get rid of one of them. Together they are $170 a month.
Figured up mom's credit card balances tonight. Well, except for a straggler that I found in her wallet that she didn't mention. She is at least $13k in debt. How's that for kick in the you know what. Took away her credit cards tonight too. She and I had agreed that she wouldn't use them anymore, yet she had a hissy fit when I gathered them up and put them in an envelope. She wants to leave them open after paying the balances (to preserve her credit - hee hee) and ALSO keep them in her wallet. WHAT? SERIOUSLY? I told her she can't use them and she said yes, I know, but couldn't stand to not have them in her wallet. One hour fight on that one. Lovely. Got 2 hours of sleep last night and I'm getting all 4 of my wisdom teeth pulled tomorrow. I'd better get to bed. It's been a long week.

skystar. are they term life or whole life? Daddy had several small whole life policies, but they were paid up years ago and were growing in value. If she is still paying the premiums, you need to find out how close they are to being paid up. Few people her age carry term life because it gets so high. (and it has no cash value as far as I have ever known).

If they are paid up whole policies you may be able to take some out but keep the policy. Be aware of taxes on anything you cash in. That could clobber you next April. Call the agent and find out what's what. I am not the best at annuities, insurance, funds, taxes. I have to double check everything.

We found out about the Home Affordable Modification Program today - the "Obama Plan". If your loan and your income and circumstances qualify, your mortgage can be modified to 31% of your income. This made me very excited because when I figured 31%, this was exactly the most I said my mom could afford, so here I go getting all hyped up and probably getting my mom all hyped up (not on purpose) and then I see the "fine print". It's 31% of the GROSS income. I was figuring it on net. That is a difference of $150 a month higher that the mortgage payment would be than I thought. Also, I found out she has a 10k mutual fund still that has not been sold/used. But, even if we use this for the current mortgage or even the "new" mortgage (if that works out), she still can't afford what her expenses are (based on spending habits partly). She should probably pay off her 8-10k credit debt with the 10k mutual fund. But, still what about the mortgage? If she could commit to spending less, she could make the mortgage. I'm so discouraged. I saw a glimmer of hope and now I'm not so sure.

Hey, does anyone know what is reasonable to pay for life insurance and why would my mom have 2 life insurance plans? Do you think we should cash one of these in? Thoughts?

I started a reply, and then scratched it. Thing is, what I think I am seeing is the start of a rite of passage for several people and their elders. They all begin with a pot hole of change. Our Elder Loved Ones often fight tooth and nail not to be at the point where they need us (much less admit it) and very grudgingly give ground. The children of an Elder, seldom want to let go of the last vestage of childhood, but if they are going to dive in at all, they want to cannon ball into the deep end.. All very understandable in our complicated busy lives. If only they would just let us put everything into its proper place (so it fits in OUR lives) everything would be just fine. After all, WE know about modern life, its pitfalls, users, scams, so just get used to your new place in life and TRUST us. That will make everything easy.

I wasn't using my years thinking, "Oh boy, one day I'll get to take care of Mom and Dad, and it will be so much FUN". Honestly I didn't spend a lot of time thinking about it and when it came up for others I pushed it out of mind pretty quick. When it started, it was little things,,,but it would hit me like a baseball bat up side the head. "What were they thinking?"

The more I got involved, the more I understood, each step would be a whole new education and the most frustrating thing would be, tomorrow would be like starting from scratch. Now, Mom and I are approaching her "home stretch". She has proceeded on her path and it has been a struggle to be with her as she begins to stumble and fall.

The problems at the start can be a real shock. "What were they thinking?" "What ARE they thinking?" Back up a bit.. BREATHE. This is a very important time for everyone. They have lives of their own and have had for a lot longer than you have. It is hard on them whether it seems like it or not. It is hard on everyone.

NOW, Smile, find something to laugh about. A spoonful of sugar does help the medicine go down.

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I don't want him to feel like a burden but on the other hand I wish he acknowledged my sacrifices for him.

Everyone wants to feel appreciated. I know most parents want to feel that way but I'm not sure anything I ever did for my mom could repay all she gave to me. Sure, she didn't perform the same level nor years of hands-on caregiving for her parents as I did for her, but it wasn't a contest and it wasn't for me to judge. My job responsibility was to oversee my mom's care with as much respect and attention to her dignity and personal preferences as I could manage. She did her best for me and I did my best for her. Our "bests" may have been different in many ways, but there's no more anyone can ask of another than that. Some days my best was brilliant; other days it wasn't worth a crap. My mom and dad were both like that - it's called being human.

The time for working out our problems with our parents has passed. They are too old to change now and many are not cognitively capable, which means it isn't sportin' to take "shots" at them... They all are what they are and can't do much better than what they are doing.

Like it or not, the only way to stay sane while caring for our elders is to check the guns, knives and whips at the door. It's no longer a fair fight. Where we do differ from them is our ability to accept that they are old; some are sick and others have progressive brain diseases that are destroying not only their cognition, but their bodies as well. We have a chance to do things differently; they do not. We can adapt; they can not.

Comes a time when we have to put our big girl panties on and realize that whatever issues we may have with our parents, the fighting is OVER. There are no winners. With understanding, acceptance and love (and a touch of luck), there may be no losers either. It all depends upon how one plays the hand they drew.

Harping on their failing points NOW is not going to solve the problems of how to best help and care for them.

I hope things work out. The foreclosure will force the issue pretty much. At age 77, I would be terrified to be out of my home... Sometimes the spending habits of others seem terrible as compared to our own. I don't understand why people spend money on a lot of things that they do and I'm sure some don't understand how I spend mine... Hopefully, there is an assisted living place near you and your brother that she can afford... Good luck.

dit, well, I can't say that what you've written doesn't sting a bit. It does. It's okay though. What my husband was putting me through in the past was not nice. I don't disagree with that. The problem is that I really do understand where he comes from. He doesn't like to burn money and help people and help them (by buying a condo for them to live in where they had no place to go, giving them a perfectly good 6 year old car for free, etc.). He just likes people to be responsible for themselves a little as well. Maybe you are right. Maybe my mom isn't very resourceful at problem solving, but she also isn't very good at swallowing her pride and living within her means. Not sure if you read about her $70 earmuffs or the $40- $60 a month she spends on starbucks coffee instead of paying her mortgage. Maybe she really didn't know she was that far behind, but that is really a whole other problem then, isn't it. And, I am trying SO hard to support her in problem solving. SO HARD! I am working on her budget with her, all the while knowing that she won't be able to stick with it. And I am fighting against my brother who doesn't seem to care that she can't AFFORD to live in her current place. I am trying to get her into a more affordable place and she acts like she will die if she can't live there anymore. I get that she is scared and stressed out. I just wish that she wouldn't keep blaming me for being "different" and pushing me away when I try to help her with the budget and finding a solution to her problem. My brother told my mom today that there is no way she is moving out of her condo. Okey dokey. Let's see what happens when they lock her doors and she can't get in. What then? I'm not trying to sound mean, but she will barely work with me here. She doesn't want to admit that something needs to change with the way she lives and I am SO TIRED (physically tired) of talking and talking and talking and trying to get her to see reality. I am so tired of my brother undoing, in 5 minutes, the progress I have made with her that took me hours and many tears and screaming matches. I am crying right now because I am looking at her bank statements from the last 3 months and her credit card balances and her overdue payments on almost every bill she has. I am reading her foreclosure notice and still wondering if, for a second, there is a way to make this work, which is ridiculous at this point. I am scared too. I am sad too. I am stressed out, not sleeping and not eating. Please don't make it sound like I am not helping her.
And therapy, well, no my husband does not go. He does not believe in therapy. But you know what, I love my husband anyway. If he and I ever do have to part ways, I certainly don't want it to be over my mother. If he ever did threaten divorce again, I don't know what I would do. Maybe therapy has toughened me up a bit. But, still not enough to get through this unscathed. And by the way, I am not good at problem solving either. I am seriously stressing about what to do here. It seems to me that she should try to sell the condo (she doesn't want to). It seems to me that she will have to claim bankruptcy because of all of her bills (not desirable and may hinder her greatly in getting a place to live). It seems to me that she should NOT be in charge of ANY money at all. (she won't go for that). She will over and over again, get into debt and not be able to live within her budget and expect her family to pay her way - under her conditions. My husband and my mother are very alike. If he is cruel, so is she.
Anyway, sorry for the long response. I appreciate your comments. I do. I'm sure there are many that feel as you do and would keep helping when someone doesn't respect you and put their own future and happiness in jeopardy. I would do it too if I were alone. I don't have the strength to fight without my husband. I'm actually quite a weak, helpless person. That's been my problem all along. Okay, I'm stopping now. I'm pretty upset. Sorry for venting.

Skystar, I read your post from 2008 and then the recent one. I feel for you. Is therapy helping?

Maybe I am a lot like you, but I kind of disagree with what you are hearing from some others. The 2 things that hit me immediately when I read your postings are: 1) your mom is 76 (77 now?) and still working; and 2) your husband threatens to divorce you over issues related to your potentially homeless mother.

I am probably out of line by saying this, so I apologize in advance, but to be threatened with divorce over an issue you need to deal with concerning your mother seems cruel, controlling and manipulative. Has he gone to counselling with you? Also, your mom may have made some bad decisions with her $ and taken a ride on your coattails a bit, but I can't imagine how scary it would be to be 77 years old, out of money and unsure of whether I would have somewhere to live tomorrow. Maybe I am just a massive enabler, but I think your Mom needs help, since she doesn't seem to be very resourceful at this type of problem solving, and needs her children to help her (and I don't mean with $$$ but with help in problem solving and support). It seems like your husband's conditions are antagonistic and force a further wedge between you and your mom. So unfair for you to have to be stuck in the middle without support....

Maybe I need to read the thread again to understand more of the details, but that was my gut reaction. Again, is therapy helping? Will your husband go with you?

The links provided to you by the other poster look like great resources.

I wish I had better advice or solution to offer and I am sorry if what I have said here hurts you.

Thanks for all of the links bobcat. I really appreciate you taking the time and your support too!
Susan, hang in there. You are great for giving your time and love to your father. I hope somewhere deep inside he appreciates it more than he shows. I hope that about my mom too.

Honestly, I think if my brother were not in the picture, things would be easier with my mom. I think that she is swayed back and forth between me and my brother. My brother is as bad with money as she is and is a bad influence on her.

I talked with my husband this afternoon. I was reluctant to tell him about her foreclosure situation because #1 I don't want him to stress out about it and #2 I don't want him to try to "solve" the situation because that has not worked in the past.

It's funny. As per usual, he wants to help, but with limitations and conditions. I get it though. He wants to feel secure and that we won't be taken advantage of.

He said that we could buy my mom's condo for what she owes - nothing more (meaning she would get nothing back from her down payment, but she also would not owe anything and would not have a foreclosure on her record). But, she can't live there because we would need the full mortgage amount (at least $800 month plus some extra for taxes/association dues) and she obviously can't afford that. She would still have to move into an apartment or in with my brother. My husband told me, but doesn't want to tell her, that after she lives with my brother for awhile or in an apartment for a year, she could move in with us. She can then use her social security check to pay for medical bills and anything else she wants like special food, coffee or gas (if she wants to keep her job). We would handle everything else. I think it's fair, but she will not, I am pretty sure. She will either think we are cheating her out of her down payment on the condo (which I doubt she will get back anyhow because of what she owes and what she will get for the place) and/or that we should allow her to live there for a reduced rent/rent free. She doesn't trust us at all. I know in the long run, this would be best for her, but likely we will end up putting the condo up for sale and she will continue to rack up the money she owes on it and will get less and less return when it sells (if it sell). I'm not sure if I am glad or sad that I told my husband. I had to though. I did not want to keep it from him.

Thanks for your kind words, skystar! Your mom sounds like my dad, it's all about him. I am working now to not be that way when I'm older! I want to be like my mom instead - loving and kind and aware of others' issues as well as my own. Just last night he asked where my hubby was, I told him he had gone on a fishing trip to N.C. with a local group, he said, "Well, if I wasn't here you could have gone with him." Trying to be nice, I said, "Don't say it like that, that sounds bad! Just say 'If I weren't having health problems right now.'" He said, "If you wanted to go I could find somebody to help me, but it's sure more convenient when you do it THIS way!" Of course it is, for HIM. I miss out on a lot that he never knows about. I don't want him to feel like a burden but on the other hand I wish he acknowledged my sacrifices for him. And they are legion! Also, in my opinion, when people say to you, "Your parents fed you and clothed you and took care of you, now it's your turn to do it for them." Maybe, but, I did that for MY kids, too, that's the Pay-It-Forward part. The real question is, "What did MY Dad do for HIS parents?" Precious little, let me tell you. He conveniently forgets that!

Hi skystar70, welcome back.

I looked at the links available for Illinios at Savvy senior. I think this one may take you somewhere

http://www.state.il.us/aging/

Including the whole group though since I don't know what part of Illinios you are in. The
area agency on aging link for your regoin may also be of good use.

Illinois
AARP Illinois Home Page www.aarp.org/il
Durable Power of Attorney Form for Illinois www.siumed.edu/ethics/dpoaform.htm
East Central Illinois Area Agency on Aging www.eciaaa.org
Egyptian Area Agency on Aging www.egyptianaaa.org
Illinois Department on Aging www.state.il.us/aging
Illinois Intergenerational Initiative www.siu.edu/offices/iii
Living Will Form for Illinois www.siumed.edu/ethics/livingwillform.htm
Medicaid Information for Illinois www.cms.hhs.gov/medicaid/state.asp?state=IL
Northeastern Illinois Area Agency on Aging www.ageguide.org
Pharmaceutical Assistance in Illinois www.state.il.us/aging/3hot/pharm-assist.htm
Western Illinois Area Agency on Aging www.wiaaa.org

Please stand firm. Your Mother has made some bad decisions and it doesn't sound like it has been age related even though she is a senior now. While she may not have time on her side to learn from her mistakes and foolishness like a younger person might, but she would be very wrong to expect you to pay for her indulgences. You are her child and your welfare should matter to her, your retirement future should matter to her and that your marraige stays strong SHOULD MATTER to her

Bro owes her money??? Let him pay her back by taking her in..

Susan is right on target.


ONE MORE
http://portal.hud.gov/portal/p.../HUD/states/illinois

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bobcat,

Susan, thanks for your support. I want to make my relationship with my husband #1 and am trying SO hard. I know that he feels threatened and taken advantage of where my mom and her situation are concerned. He has tried to help her organize her finances and prepare for her future many times and she has ignored his advice. I'm sure it was because she was scared, but I'm sure she is even more scared now. Anyway, for some reason, I am having a really hard time removing myself from helpless daughter role. This morning, when I talked to her and she told me she can't sleep because she keeps thinking about losing the condo and having nowhere to live, I told her I can't sleep or stop thinking about it either. I swear she didn't even hear me. It's all about her. It always has been. I do still love her though. I wish I could form a thicker skin. I think I'll have to find one soon. Thanks again for your perspective. You sound like you have a lot of wisdom to share.

PS - If anyone knows how I can get information on government assistance for my mother in Illinois, can you let me know where to start looking. Thanks!

Skystar, I told my kids as they were growing up that they would be leaving home some day but I would be with their Dad forever and our marriage was more important than whatever trivial thing they were fussing about at the time. The children were not allowed to split us up or come between us. Same with our parents now - my marriage comes before my 84 year old father being a pain in the rear - and it's hard. I have him on one side expecting to be #1 in my life, ditto the husband on the other. You can't be #1 to everybody (or, more accurately, they can't be #1 to you!). It's easy to look at your situation from the outside and say what you would do, but you are the only one that is living it. I tolerate things that others say they wouldn't - but, are they sure? Have they ever walked in my shoes? You have to decide what is most important to YOU, and in my own personal opinion, that should be your marriage. Your Mom sounds like a user and a manipulator, ditto for your brother. If you have been in therapy you have already been told more than any of us can tell you, and you know the decisions you make are your own. Good luck in dealing with family. Someone I know put on her Facebook page "Thank God for our loving families!" HA! I had to laugh out loud. I wish I could feel that way, I really do. I pray that God gives me the patience and ability to do what He wants me to do, fulfilling my responsibilities without being an enabler. What a fine line that is.

Hello all. I thought I would give you all an update. I know you all post on here A LOT - being the caring, helpful angels you all are - so you may not remember me. After my last post over a year and a half ago, my mother bought the condo across the street from where she lived (against my advice). Granted, her mortgage was lower than the rent we were asking of her, but she put most of the savings she had into the down payment in order to get that low monthly mortgage. Well, she has been living there for a year and a half. All the while, I have kept up a relationship with her and have endured family holidays with my mother and brother and without my husband because neither my husband or mother like each other. In fact, less than a month ago, my mother told me she hated my husband. My husband just doesn't say much to me about it at all.
Regardless, I have been in therapy all the while now, trying to deal with the difficult people in my life that I love very much.
Today, the sh*t hit the fan. My mother told me her condo is being foreclosed upon. She is out of money (except for her social security and minimal income from a part time job) and is at least 4 months behind on her mortgage. With her credit card bills and utilities, she cannot afford her mortgage. I will be working with her in the coming weeks to figure out what she owes, what her income/savings (if any) are and figure out where I can find her a more reasonable place and how to get her to realize she has to stop spending so much money. She has cut back a lot, but she still buys coffee at Starbuck's at least 5 times a week - spending approximately $40 a month on coffee. As usual, she wants me to give her money to help her keep the condo. What I tried to explain to her, is that if she cannot pay for the condo, this will just keep happening over and over again. She needs to cut back and find a more reasonable place or move in with my brother. My brother does not have a lot of money and can't help her. In fact, he has borrowed money from her in the past and not paid it back. Very wrong if you ask me. Maybe I say that because I am not in his position. I told my mother that I cannot give her money and she cannot live with me and she should know that based on the past year and a half.
I have yet to talk to my brother. In the aftershock of her telling me about the foreclosure, I left him a semi-snotty message on his voicemail because he knew about this foreclosure and did not tell me when I talked to him a couple of days ago. He should also remember that he told me he felt that mom should be able to spend her money any way she wants no matter what. Well, see what that got her? Not to mention the rest of us. He also encouraged her and helped her buy the condo. I certainly hope he steps up to help figure some of this stuff out.

Anywho, it's nice to see many of you still posting. You are all such a help to all of the lives you touch.