Compulsive behaviors is what Im facing now with my MIL and try as I may nothing seems to work for her....She has no will whatsoever to "do" anything the worst part Depression meds have an opposite effect on her.
I have her on Aricept right now but I also want to make clear it was not for the purpose of trying to stop the disease it was to try and quell the destructive behaviors.
I have done so much research and have found nothing that addresses this problem in a patient with AD.
Has anyone come across anything that addresses destructive behavior/harming ones self?

Bob cat, My mother walked with a walker, and very slow.When we would go to the shopping centers I would have to stop traffic so she could cross the street.If looks could have killed me.I use to kid mother she was slower then the second coming.But, when she was determined to leave my house to go home, she sure put those wheels in high gear.

D***n , for the first time in my CG history, I am grateful that my Mom refuses (at least so far) to be more than 2 hours away from her own bathroom. And she moves so slow that I can do five laps of the house before she can make it from her bedroom to the kitchen. I have always had patience, but it has now just been increased ten fold.

Yeah I did that too the same night Mae! I put locks on all the exterior doors because the problem I would have here is that she really wont remember where or how to get back since this house is new to her. Theres also many circles within this neighborhood with houses that look similar to ours. She'd be lost for sure! Not gonna take the chance! Everyone now has to give us a jingle before they come if they have the key!

Bunnys Girl, the experience with mil traveling is not unusual.But so frightening.My mother was always attempting to get out the door to go home.She was so determined that her strength became that of jobe when the need was so intent.I finally had to put high locks on the doors and I have many doors and she would find the one that got her out.She usually walked slow with her walker but the determination changed that.Mind over matter rang true.I dealt with this for 3 years.Not until we found the right doctor with the right meds did this stop.It is so sad to watch.The one thing she did recall was the address I have posted on my shed.We would come home she would look at that and say it over and over.That is where I live.This was the home she wanted to go to but not at the time she was mentally.I made sure all the furniture she recalled was within her view.They held the keys to a better time to her.My poor aunt cold not compleyely grasp the change in mother and she would tell her to behave her self.Well that would open a can of worms as my mother could not reason like my aunt thought she should.So I would have to try to explain to my aunt as I knew mother could not comprehend.

Ah Mae funny you should say that. Going out this is something she has just tried recently as you know already, but in the past she used to threaten to leave for the attention it garnered her until I stepped in years ago and said to her well then theres the door no ones stopping you!
But then several years ago someone tried the same tactic on her and she left, took herself via a cab that was called to the airport and flew back to good ole S.F. (we were livin in L.A. at the time) She stayed there at our old home since friends bought it, for 3 weeks (thank the lord for their generosity!) This may have been the start of the disease...
Now last month she tried leaving again this time I knew I had to react differently and forcibly stop her.
If I feel her time here is a danger in anyway to her thats the time I will react I dont care how hunny will react and at this point he pretty much is aware just struggling with the idea mom is losing her grip I will do whatever needs to be done to ensure her safety...

Wait a minute I just realized something here! lol The someone wasnt me it was her SIL! I wasnt even there at the time!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bunnys_grl,

Bunnys girl, because my mother behave a certain way with me and not others I was prepared to set up the movie camera.
With my mother I knew of her phobias so when she changed many of them came to surface.
Wow, your MIL seems to go to the extreme.You have alot to deal with .ALL I CARED FOR NEVER FEARED THE OUT SIDE WORLD.THEY FELT LIKE THEY WERE PRISONERS BEING HELD WITH OUT THEIR CONSENT SO MOTHER AND HUBBY WERE ALWAYS TRYING TO GO OUT.

Whats so amusing to most is I know this woman better than hunny and I do mean that like on one night in particular, they were suppose to go to a Christening the next day as the evening before progressed I was noticing little things...hunny was in his office and all of a sudden I hear them both, she doesnt want to go and he wants her to go...*chuckle* so starts the routine, she goes back to her room she places a pointed tissue in her nose to start a sneezing fit goes to the bathroom hacking along the way coughing like crazy in the bathroom so I walk into hunny tell him whats up, she is going to try to come back in here and tell you shes not feeling good yada yada, finally after the 3rd trip to the BR in a little pathetic voice she announces shes not feeling well and is coming down with something lol To this hunny of course goes into hyper mode tells her he doesnt care, if he has to drag her out half nekked thats just what he'll do... he walks in the bedroom and asks me how the hell I knew she was gonna try and pull that...
I have watched this woman, shes like volume 10 to me its that obvious she had/has little routines/quirks that come before the behaviors like when shes agitated she scratches her head backwards (fingers pointed towards her face at the crown of her head) then look out if its accompanied by a clicking noise this means displeasure. She destroys things if she doesnt like it throws out tears up shreds you name it even if it belonged to someone else and like a child she will hide in a corner to accomplish these things, quiet as a mouse you know theres trouble brewin. Every little thing she does now is sneaky in nature... just to get to something Ive caught her climbing up cabinets, opened drawers, shelves like they were ladders. She frightens the hell outta me but Im sure as heck glad she only weighs 83 pounds if not, yeesh I hate to think! Monitoring her is the only way to keep an eye on her.
The aggravating thing though, shes still aware enough that she wont do this when hunnys around. But then again he doesnt monitor her like I do either so I have to give him that
Like this morning Im correcting false thinking here AGAIN hunny stayed home today so hes feeding her breakfast shes confused and thinks its Saturday (he tells me) then says well she has no calendar so she wouldnt know. I tell him yes she has a calendar and studies it morning and night and makes it a point to cross off the days as she goes, those crayons are at least getting some use (I also look at it everyday to judge her confusion level) she knows today is not Saturday, so yes she IS confused today Hun its not about mistaking it because you are here if so in usual behavior she would have pointed out to you that it was Friday and why were you home....
Her behaviors watching her over the years are based in controlling the world around her now whether thats from her childhood in regards to the war in her homeland your guess is as good as mine I just know its about control. Even if she couldnt verbally control her husband or son or me for that matter she would do things behind their back in order to accomplish the control she thought was necessary. Even going as far as destroying mail that came in which I was witnessed to one day. I sure as heck didnt approve of that but who was I back then to say anything. Just made me pay more attention to her from then on to try and keep important things locked up and out of her reach.
I do have in my lil brain to tell ole Doc I think she needs a GN... but LBD after all the research there are things that point to it but at the same time I dont think so I just think the AD is getting worse...but hey who knows

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quote:

Im seriously starting to think there were underlying issues she had that went undiagnosed way before FIL passed away

DUH!! No foolin'! ANYONE who stayed in one room except to potty BEFORE they started with the AD stuff DEFINITELY had prior issues! Agorophobia is something I know a little about from first-hand experience, but GEEZE!! I never was askeered to come outta my bedroom or thought there were eyeballs in imaginary holes or anything... I just hated living in the city! I think there's a huge difference between neuroses and psychoses. Me, I'm neurotic at times, but the behaviors never prevent me from doing what I have to do in life - they just aggravate me and are one more challenge to surmount. People who suffer from psychoses not only structure their lives around their quirks, they are REAL to them! Even when I was feeling the MOST agorophobic and could "feel" or sense all the people around me in their houses and cars all BREATHING my dang air, I knew that was my imagination and was able to tell myself to shut the heck up and go mow the lawn 'cause the grass was growin' whether everyone was breathing or not! People who are ill cannot do that and are slaves to those terrible obsessions and compulsions.

It's mega frustrating for caregivers (particularly in-laws who haven't spent their lives knowing someone) to have to try to unravel all this stuff BEFORE the loved one becomes mentally incapacitated, let alone after dementia sets in... You're a trooper, BG!! I sure wish you could hook up with a geriatric neuropsychiatrist... that's about the only pro I can think of who might be able to unravel some of this... And as you have said, your poor MILs odd behaviors were deeply entrenched BEFORE all this... her condition may be set in stone! So very sad!

You mentioned hallucinations & delusions - do you think it's possible that she has Lewy Body Disease? Kinda sounds similar to the symptoms others have reported...

Yup shoulda known Hunny knows nothing other than crocheting and sewing...But on the bright side she just asked me to explain solitaire to her! Well done! Maybe this will keep her occupado for a minute. Dam I could see those things from 20 ft away!
Now as far as getting out of her room no siree baby and not for lack of trying either, same way as when she was younger...she only goes out to go to the bathroom now ever since the hallucinations started and that took a minute to convince her there were no holes in the walls with eyes in there. Dont ask, I still cant figure out how I got that one accomplished...perseverance perhaps.
She is definitely a strange one MB. She is as stubborn as a mule and then some
Im seriously starting to think there were underlying issues she had that went undiagnosed way before FIL passed away the more I read the more I think back to how she was, things that I thought were maybe a little strange or over the top at the time are starting to make a little sense...

quote:

Sorry if you think Im not listening to what your saying

BG, I didn't think that at all.

Does she ever come out of her room? Seems like the idea with your hubby is great cause sometimes, until and unless someone is able to "catch on" to something, they need help/participation/supervision from someone else. Like I said, sometimes stuff people never enjoyed or wanted to do changes... only way to find out is to try something a few times... I wouldn't imagine that she can handle doing things by herself well. Perhaps Hubby & she could park at the dinner table or something and do things... You are so right that our LOs will accept something from one person that they will reject from another... go figger.

Mom NEVER liked coloring or painting or any of that kind of stuff her whole life... until now...

See I think this is the problem we are having, what she liked to do she can no longer do since her eyesight is so bad it ends up giving her headaches if she tries, and anything fun was not her bag, even cooking..FIL did it all and I do mean all down to the shopping for clothing. But at this point Im trying anything I think might be remotely possible for her to do. I give it to hunny and tell him to give it to her so she thinks its from him and NOT me... So far no matter what it ends up in the closet. I try to bring something back out sit down with her and try and then she gets angry.
What Im going to do now is ask hunny if he remembers anything she might have liked doing cause frankly we could go broke at this point if I try reeally hard
Sorry if you think Im not listening to what your saying, I truly am...I wish she was more like others (god how I wish) but the simple truth is she isnt and wasnt. Some people just arent like that, this is a very unique woman....Ive watched her for over 25 years She is not nor ever has been one that liked to venture out and try new things the more I try to get her to do things the angrier she gets with me... As a matter of fact Im the "Wicked Witch" today not that I mind but thats what I am today. Last week it was a bitch the week before a putah the week before that a scrooge...then a thief, this is what I live with...am I angry no, just frustrated that every time I try something she shows no interests in it and blows up and its getting worse. Do I really want to use meds? Heck no but at this point what choice do I have?
I really cant see any choice in this matter anymore.
Kennel behavior is one thing this is entirely different this is what she likes, being within the confines of home even some of her oldest friends say this. "She would outright lie to get out of going anywhere with us" they know/knew this and have told me cause thats how far Ive gone into trying to figure out something for her to do calling friends. She is different than anyone I have ever met Im telling you

So true, Mae. And something else I am really paying attention to these days is how DESPERATELY these folks want to just do the things they have always done... They just wanna be "real" people again - to feel USEFUL for SOMETHING! Like your hubby wanting to call and go to work each day - that was his THING, his reality. They don't remember how messed up they are, but the sure as heck remember being ABLE to DO real stuff! I am trying more and more to think creatively and provide something for Mom to do that simulates that... I thought to myself one day that some of my mom's destructive aggravating habits are exactly like what dog trainers call "kennel" behaviors. So many times, I have ASSUMED that Mom wouldn't like doing something, because she never did before and when I ask her she says she doesn't wanna or does not take off on it the first time I try... Throw that out the window! If they show ANY interest at ALL - that's something to build on! For example, Mom can't play cards any more either, BUT one day, I remembered making card houses... and she made card houses all afternoon until I got sick of picking them up off the floor when the building crashed!! Sometimes I just don't think OUTSIDE THE BOX frequently enough (or FAR enough... ). I'll bet some of our folks would LOVE playing with Lincoln logs or Lego (or those larger versions called Duplo). Remember POPBEADS? They make big versions for kids who are too small to trust with choking hazards (good thing for US to remember too!). I bought my kid this MONDO KOOL construction set called Pipeworks made from PVC Pipes that interlock. The kid could make chairs and sofas and forts and doghouses and all kinds of things with them... Maybe other folks would enjoy a rubber butterfly or bug collection! Heck, hang something from the ceiling for them to whack if they are feeling frustrated! Snapping beans, filling mini-tart shells with fillings for dinner (Mom makes mini-crawfish pies to go with jambalaya me-o-my-o). I give her the little shells and the filling and a spoon and it doesn't matter if they are done exactly RIGHT - they still taste good and then SHE can harvest all the compliments and enjoy making a contribution! What about those CUTE sock dolls that we used to slip on our hands and "talk" back and forth... Things that take a lot of organizing or remembering will frustrate them; but there are LOTS of activities that they can enjoy even in a half-asped sorta way... I said that old line to my son a little while ago, "Of all the things I have lost along the way, the thing I miss most is my mind." I don't think that's a joke for them... That's their REALITY! I think they are grieving for its loss, too (if only they could remember what to call it...)! Depressed - who wouldn't be... Angry, sure! Frustrated as a one legged guy in a butt-kickin' contest? You betcher mortgage money! I don't know about how ALL patients with these terrible degenerative brain disorders feel, but more and more, I think that less is better as far as meds go... Sometimes, we overlook more harmless, simple solutions because we, too, have been trained to expect meds and docs to fix EVERYTHING!

I had a long conversation with my hubbies gheriatric nurse at the VA.THE TOPIC WAS MEDS GIVEN TO THE ELDERLY AND THOSE WITH MENTAL AND EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS.What he told me was too many times the wrong medicines are given or too high of a dosage.As a result the afflicted cabn show symptoms of other problems and then the doctors will presribe and not realize it was the meds.,He was impressed with my handling meds for my hubby and not allowing over medication.There are many meds that will enhance the dementia symptoms.Thank god they are well informed as they deal so much, at the VA with the elderly and people with mental and emotionall problems.Meds can make thing right or make them horribly wrong.

If you ever wonder if what your loved one is going through give them a set of cards to play with...Not quite sure whether this was a good idea or a bad one but I purchased a set of low vision playing cards in hopes of giving her something to do but after 5 minutes of yelling at them throwing them in a closet bringing them back out again she sat down and played something unintelligible and showed serious confusion at deciphering the cards...once again their back in the box in the closet! Gonna get hunny to play a game with her tonite to see if she will try again... but after what I just saw Im no longer thinking this is such a great idea due to agitation level.

Thank you for that Mariabee, this has actually been almost 2 weeks before the meds were administered which didnt make a lick of sense since her depression and OCD behaviors were through the roof. This never ceases to amaze me how much more complex this is when your 24/7 cg...soooo much different then 4-6 hour cg! This is a real eye opener Im tellin you, Im learning so much everyday.

quote:

Originally posted by Bunnys_grl:
I have a calm before the storm mentality goin on here.
Heres another lil funny thing... all of a sudden incontinence issue is non existent?
Has anyone experienced this?

Absolutely! ...not that my mom has ever been on Aricept, nor has she had the same compulsions as your MIL. But her behaviors can be more than maddening and many times are scary and dangerous, as well.

Then out of the blue she will have a good day. Or a good week, or even a whole good month! She sort of cycles and the physical aspect seems to cycle with the mental and emotional part. Either EVERYthing is looking up, or it is all taking a down-turn.

In our case, I'm even beginning to see the signs associated with when things are going to change. At least I'm not feeling so blind-sided as much of the time!

Unfortunately, we haven't been able to correlate any of these improved phases with ANY of her medications---except of course, when there have been a couple of crises where she was a danger to herself/others, and the more heavy duty meds were administered. Those meds do work, but there is often a heavy price to pay. Some of them actually INDUCE Parkinson's Disease (our neurologist explained that to me a couple of weeks ago) Imagine!

Uh ya know I may have spoke too soon... I may be mistaken but I think the Aricept may be working.
I was going to take her off of it but monitoring her today stopped me cold. She made her bed got up and sat in her chair asked for a haircut...Hey...ok Im still holdin my breath I have a calm before the storm mentality goin on here.
Heres another lil funny thing... all of a sudden incontinence issue is non existent?
Has anyone experienced this?

Sometimes my head gets all full up and I haveta go do somethin' senseless to empty it... like do laundry!

Me gotcha now! Thank the Lord cause I was just about ready ta blow on all these articles! Information overload
I better go do somethin simple and stupid right now to let some pressure off
shes aboot rready ta blow Capitan!