We are going to seriously get some family members together and try to get DPOA for my aunt.

I have some questions that I didn't find answers to on the forum.

First, I don't know if I can convince family members to bring her to a lawyer for this because of they don't see why they should incur a cost. They did a Will for her (printed from an internet document) and want to do the DPOA in the same way. I'm not sure if the will was done properly because it says some ambiguous things like 'half the value of my home goes to so-and-so.'

I told them that seeking expert help is 'better' but are there specific reasons I can bring up to convince them why we should go to an eldercare lawyer? Have people gotten the DPOA on their own and used it without experiencing any problems at banks, etc?

Also, are there some kind of verbal arguments I can use with my aunt who is very independent minded, doesn't think she needs any help, is slightly distrustful, and won't sign something she does not understand?

I ask because I rely on family members who are not patient and we may only have one chance here.

Also, would this form be a good form to use for somebody in the US? It allows specifying more than one agent. That brings up another issue. If we pick the option to ' act together' that might satisfy some family members who don't completely trust me. But would that also make a difficult hurdle of day-to-day tasks that require POA?

Can anyone recommend a source for these forms (I'm in New York state) or does anyone have any tips so that we don't make mistakes?

Any feedback is very much appreciated!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: rockdove,

I know more savvy people here will have more complete answers but I think Durable Power of Attorney will only allow folks to make medical decisions for the person in question. It's not like plain ol' Power of Attorney which also gives someone the ability to make financial decisions, pay bills, etc.

Hopefully, someone will correct me if I'm wrong. :-)

Rockdove, I refer you to this sponser of ECO. Legal Zoom, POA, educational page.

http://www.legalzoom.com/power...wer-of-attorney.html

or caregivers library

http://www.caregiverslibrary.o...fault.aspx?tabid=167

There are some answers which MUST be fine tuned in your/her state. In MY state, DPOA only kicks in when a person can't or won't any longer speak for themselves. (It is a blessing if a person assigns a competant and trusted person that understands their wishes before the fact, after is a true court and judge matter). It is financial and medical. POA is financial/legal, allowing another person to fill in to handle these matters for an individual. POA can be changed at any time, (not durable). Until that individual is not competant, he/she can reassign POA and DPOA, but after that, is when 'durable' kicks in. The one with DPOA will make decisions on behalf of some one that cannot make those decisions any longer.

Some people appoint co-persons (both individuals have to agree on every decision ). Others appoint primary, secondary, etc. In that case, primary is able to make decision alone, and if for any reason primary was unavailable, the job goes to secondary, and so on.

If at any time, an 'interested party' feels that the best interest of the individual is being violated, they can make a report to adult protective services who will investigate. If there are grounds, they will take it to court on behalf of the incompetant elder. If they find evidence that the elder is in danger, they can 'take custody' .

I am concerned that "they" got her a will. Forms from the 'net source may be valid, but only if proper filled out AND signed AND witnessed AND noterized. Even then it is more easily challenged than one drawn up locally by a reputable attorney.

As far as arguments to your aunt, let her know she can change her mind. She can have her appointee sign a 'statement of purpose' where she can define her wishes, (usually not legally binding, but can give an elder a lot of comfort). If she has had a friend or acquaintance who has been temporarily disabled, point out that someone had to be able to pay the light bill in the mean time. It can happen to anyone... Let her be your POA in trade. (Don't worry).

The thing is, if she hasn't been found incompetent by a doctor, or court, they don't have a say, and certainly have no business making out her will (which is not a done deal, by the way, if she is competent, she can change it at any time and does not need their input or permission).

If you feel you need to convince them that someone needs to be assigned to look after her, remind them, that if the court takes over because there is no one, the lawyers are likely to make SURE there is NOTHING left for any family member. If someone insists on being a co-POA/DPOA, remind them that they will have to be available to show up EVERYTIME a paper needs to be signed for all kinds of petty reasons,,, AND again, if they think anything is mishandled, they can make a report to APS if a discussion doesn't settle the problem and have the court look into it and have the state take over.

Sorry, that was a little long winded and bordered on a rant, but it does seem like no one but you is willing to actually be there for her, and I get a little ticked off that they want to call the shots. I give you a lot of credit for your calm quiet approach.

They do not have to incur the cost of an attorney unless THEY want to. This is for your aunt's interest and if she can't afford one it is possible that there is a pro bono available. Please check with the local area agency on aging. Here is a short list of NY resources that may be of help.

New York
AARP New York Home Page www.aarp.org/states/ny
Advance Directive Forms for New York www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/...hcareproxy/intro.htm
Aging Well Village agingwell.state.ny.us Cayuga County Office for the Aging co.cayuga.ny.us/aging Delaware County Office for the Aging www.co.delaware.ny.us/depts/ofa/ofa.htm
Forty Plus Chapters of New York www.fortyplus.org/nuke/html/modules.php?name=Web_L
inks&l_op=viewlink&cid=32 Medicaid Information for New York www.cms.hhs.gov/medicaid/state.asp?state=NY
New York City Department for the Aging www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/dfta/home.html
New York State Attorney General's Office Prescription Drug Price Website www.nyagrx.org
New York State Elderly Pharmaceutical Insurance Coverage Program www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/epic/faq.htm New York State Office for the Aging www.aging.state.ny.us/index.htm
NOAH: New York Online Access to Health www.noah-health.org
StopPain.org www.stoppain.org

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bobcat,

thanks for those links. I'll try to read through them as soon as I can.

I've contacted a few elder care lawyers by e-mail, and in reading around, it looks like NY state has a new law that requires the signature of the agent in addition to the principal that took effect this March. It looks something like this.

This one may be more what you are looking for about forms

http://www.nyhealth.gov/profes...care_proxy/index.htm

I hope it helps.

http://www.nyhealth.gov/forms/doh-1430.pdf

http://www.aarp.org/community/...stylesheet=aarp_prod

Rockdove, my very best advice about all of this is to consult an attorney who specializes in elder law in the state where your aunt resides. The reason she needs a DPOA is for someone to be able to make medical and financial decisions for her in case of incapacity. Handling legal affairs with documents from the internet deprives people of needed knowledge of local statutes and sage advice. It's a lot like self-medicating. You don't need to read far into this site to realize the horrors of handling legal affairs for someone when the proper paperwork either hasn't been done or is in the hands of someone who doesn't care... Family warfare has GOT to be the worst... The consultation is well worth the money. If you do not know of a lawyer who is versed in elder law, perhaps a trusted friend can recommend one to you. Cutting corners can end up costing a LOT of estate money not to mention wear and tear on survivors. Good luck!

I don't think I will be able to get the POA. My other aunt wants it and won't budge -- she says she is the only one who is "neutral." I told her that there is no such thing as neutral, first of all, and secondly, that it doesn't matter if someone will inherit something later on because the attorney-in-fact must act in the best interests, and as was stated, the person can be held responsible in court if the agreement is violated. And that a POA who is far away will be a difficult obstacle. Etc, etc.

I think the real reason is that they are scared I will spend my aunt's money -- on her care.

That said, it is still important that this get done soon because if my aunt declines we won't be able to act for her at all.

rockdove, please remember, this is about your aunt's wishes. If she has not been deemed incompetent, they cannot make this call. It isn't a vote, not up for grabs. They certainly had no business making out her will. If she is deemed incompetent without setting this up in advance, the court will appoint someone and I garry dam T ya, that person will make sure she qualifies for medicaid as fast as possible (meaning all her money will be spent pronto.

If I remember correctly, you are suspecting dementia and she is reclusive. ??? There is no diagnosis, no behavior that has been brought to legal notice?? If I am wrong, please forgive me, but if that is the case, none of these people have any say about POA/DPOA. Only your aunt (the aunt). They don't get a vote about whether or not she sees a lawyer. Only she can choose her agent. AND she can change her mind as often as she likes. THEY don't count.

Sorry, I get a little bent out of shape when people treat the elderly like objects to be endured. Again, you seem sincere and if so, you have my best wishes for your effort.

Thanks.

Yes, nothing has been brought to legal/medical attention, but it's obvious she has something of a dementia/Alzheimer's nature.

I meant to say my aunt signed the will herself at the notary. Sorry if I was unclear. It certainly reflects her wishes.

I just don't know how she will react when we tell her she needs to do POA, but if it is like other things, she will need to be strongly urged by family members who are older and who she trusts more. I don't even know if she will fully understand what the document is and why it's necessary. I don't know if she will comply when it comes time to sign it. We really cannot argue with her because she forgets the beginning of the argument and we go back in a circle. The way to convince her is by showing enough frustration to prove that we are at the end of an argument.

So are we doing something wrong? You noted that if this is not done in advance the court will appoint someone who will burn up her money quickly.

In any case, appointing an agent will relieve us of the fear of her further decline and the agent can appoint a new agent in the future if necessary, I believe.

Sorry, no, I don't think you are doing anything wrong if the action are to give her the opportunity to have her wishes followed for her care. I noticed that the NY health.gov site urges everyone over the age of 18 to have an agent appointed for matters of health. Each of you might tell her that you have a POA/DPOA (true, right?) and even tell her who it is. This may help convince her that there is nothing wierd or fatalistic about this.

I'm trying to help out here with a suggestion about starting "The Talk." I'm not sure of the backstory here, so if I ask a question that's already been covered, please excuse me.
Does your aunt still live on her own? Can she still handle her own finances? Perhaps she will go along with the idea that she might want someone else legally allowed to pay her bills with her checks/money because someday she just might get tired of messing with all that stuff, or "God forbid, Auntie, you might be in the hospital the day the rent comes due, and 'whoever' can take care of that for you."
Might she be receptive to a joint checking account? Try to impress her with the fact that is HER choice, and she does not have to give up control of any of her money - that if she becomes unable (what if you're in a bad accident?) to be in control, that's the only time the second person can step in.
Also, I'm in agreement with the rest of them here - when you find your eldercare attorney, take the will along, too.

I gave my hubby my DPOA right after I was dx.That covers medical & money matters,all legal things......

No, she did not go for it. In fact she was so insulted by the idea that she tore up the POA contract. She thinks we're out to get her money. She was offended that we thought she may need help in the future because something could happen to her mentally or physically. She thinks it could give someone the motivation to physically attack her. She insists she has everything under control.

She really has quite a mouth on her and can go on and on and wear you out. It's really strange. She does not leave her home, cannot handle her finances, and depends on us for providing food and yet she would accuse us of these ridiculous things. I suppose she either does not understand her situation or she is very good at hiding it.

Also we cannot really argue with her because her mind is like an elevator computer. You press a number and you get a certain floor. Depending on what you say you get a certain response and you cannot go anywhere else with her.

sorry, rockdove..if nothing else works at this point, it may have to come to a crisis and court intervention. It is a sad thing that some of our elders simply do not accept help. Just the facts, unless there is a crisis and legal intervention, there is not a lot else that can be done.

You are a hero to try. Your chance may come later. Stay close.