Mom has Parkinsons. She's 71. My dad is 79. He's worn out. She borrows 600-1,000 per month from neighbors and friends. Different people each time. She will go through our inheritance in no time! She's willingly giving the $ to Jamaican scams! My dad is can't watch her 24/7 so we'll soon have to pay thousands of $ to get someone to watch her constantly - either that or lock her up!! Any suggestions? P.S. My bro. is going to make sure he's first in line as executor on my dad's will instead of my mom. Otherwise, the house and all of his money will be given to Jamaica if he dies first. Crazy and stressful!!!

SS welcome in.
Now while it is her money to do with as she pleases since no one is entitled to an inheritance till that last breath, it is imperative to stop her from borrowing from friends and neighbors for what you termed as "scams".
Is there any way to talk to these people and ask them to snap their wallets shut when shes comes asking? I mean thats the simple thing to do.
If she is not altered in her thinking then I would also have a sit down with her and lay out the costs behind long term care becuase she is going to need it eventually 24/7 care is not cheap and she can not afford to spend her and your fathers money on anything besides care.
Ask her point blank what happens if your father needs 24 hour care and there is no money left what then? There goes the home if you know what I mean if they indeed own a home.
Word for the day honesty....

quote:

Originally posted by Bunnys_grl:
SS welcome in.
Now while it is her money to do with as she pleases since no one is entitled to an inheritance till that last breath, it is imperative to stop her from borrowing from friends and neighbors for what you termed as "scams".
Is there any way to talk to these people and ask them to snap their wallets shut when shes comes asking? I mean thats the simple thing to do.
If she is not altered in her thinking then I would also have a sit down with her and lay out the costs behind long term care becuase she is going to need it eventually 24/7 care is not cheap and she can not afford to spend her and your fathers money on anything besides care.
Ask her point blank what happens if your father needs 24 hour care and there is no money left what then? There goes the home if you know what I mean if they indeed own a home.
Word for the day honesty....

We've told everyone that she's borrowed from to never do it again - problem is...she goes to new people every time and we can't tell everyone in the whole city not to give her money. We've had dozens of sit-downs with her explaining the frustration and that she's driving our family into further debt as we pay back these people she borrows from. "Reasoning" with her does not work. It's to the point that if this continues where she isn't physically restrained, my parent's home and my dad's life savings will be gone. She doesn't seem to care whether she receives 24/7 care or not so long as she can spend money she doesn't have. That's why we're thinking of having to take drastic measures...unfortunately.

Kinda scary thats she is getting new acquaintances to give her money
Im having a little bit of trouble with this one SS, does she live in a small town?
I mean it seems kind of out there if you tell people not to give her money for obvious reasons and they turn around and give it to her anyway.
If this was me Id not pay another dime out to these people that are enabling her you know what I mean? Once burned and word gets around they will have to stop
Has she always been this charitable or is this a new behavior?
If it is I would have a discussion with her PCP to request a Psych evaluation

I think you need to talk to her doctor. Parkinson's can affect the ability to make sound decisions. She may not be able to help it. If she is acting in ways that are a danger to herself and others, another family member can be given power of attorney, though it's not a light thing and takes work. I understand there are lawyers who specialize in eldercare situations -- if you can find one of those to advise, I'm sure it would help.

As far as inheritance, I'd put it out of my mind. As BG says, she will eventually need 24/7 caretaking and that's not cheap. Accept that the money your parents saved throughout their lifetime may be needed by them for their medical bills. (Though not for scams, of course.) It is stressful caring for an elderly parent or parents, especially if they aren't cooperative, but think how good it is you are there to watch out for them!

Hello Spooky, Welcome to ECO. BG and Op are pointing you in the right direction. First, it is your inheritance only if it is left over after all their needs are finalized, but I believe you and your brother know that. We are just hashing words there.

Seriously, Op is correct about consulting an elder care attorney, Parkinson's often affects judgement, and steps need to be taken to protect their assets for their future needs. Sometimes placing an ad in legal notices section of the local paper announcing that her debts after a certain date will not be honored unless signed by her POA and witnessed. Nasty business, all this dirty laundry being aired in public, but please don't think of it that way. Our elders need to be protected from scams especially when impaired by disease and it should come out of the closet.

Maybe an attorney can give you the advice you need in that direction.

You say your Dad is worn out...he cannot chase her around or keep her home. What is his health situation? Does he have POA for her? Does anyone? And for him?

Your bro cannot make himself primary executor of your Dad's will. Your Dad has to do that. If he is currently the second to your Mom, then documenting her mental state and irresponsible financial behavior may persuade the court to remove her and leave it clear for him to take over when it is time. Again, an attorney can be worth the money.

Your mother's condition will deteriorate and managing her 'behavior' may become a mute point before you find a solution. It is a very fine line to walk between protection for our elders in a difficult world and rendering them less than human because they are aging and ill. Please move with caution.

Thank you for the great insight! I am my mom's power of attorney and I have been since 2006. When NEW people come to my dad and say they need to be paid back, I reimburse my dad out of my mom's checking account. Also, as P.O.A., I have been paying down her Credit card debt of $40,000 since 2006. My folks live in a city of about 100-200,000 people. I live about 40 minutes north of them. As far as being charitable....no, my mom just has a habit of being suckered and gets a rush out of giving away money - whether it's a Jamaican scam or just spending money at the store that she doesn't have. Yeah, the inheritance may be a thing of the past because of my mom's behavior (if we can't stop it), plus the medical needs of both of them as time goes on. Yes, I'm considering talking to an Elder Care Attorney. No one is P.O.A. for my dad's finances although he just wrote a check (in full) to pay for a $3,000.00 vacuum cleaner that my mom ordered! (probably from Jamaica). Thank you so much for your comments and keep them coming if you have more. I certainly appreciate them!!

quote:

No one is P.O.A. for my dad's finances although he just wrote a check (in full) to pay for a $3,000.00 vacuum cleaner that my mom ordered!

SS why didnt Dad just send it back to the company?
Not for nothin but is dad ok? I mean its not out of line to refuse a package from the delivery man.
Call the company up and tell them you are sending it back for a full refund pronto.
Tell them if its been used it didnt work properly and you have changed your mind.
Now if you are the trusted one I do suggest you then get dads POA quick cause this doesnt sound right to me.

spooky stuff, my husband had parkinson , Lewey body dementia.If permited he would have spent money with no concerns for the ill affects.One thing I learned was those with parkinsons become gamblers and spend money.My husband was obsessed with purchasing lottery tickets .He also went out one evening, never drove at night, and purchased a van.He was approved, they called me and informed me the van eas ready to be picked up.I told them there would be no van delivered as my husband had physical and mental issues that made any contract he signed invalid
I am soory but to allow mom to continued to behave in this manner makes no sense.Either she be claimed incompitent or someone take away all of her privileges to spend any amount of money.
You, having the POA have got to take control of this bad situation.Let it be known she is not able to borrow any money from anyone.Even at my husbands worst days of dementia his concerns were of lottery tickets.I had saved all the tickets he had purchased, which would have covered a wall , and told him these were the tickets I just purchased for him.Someone has to take control or she will wipe out all funds available
Someone has got to step in and be he assertive bad guy.This is just not normal behavior.Has she been tested for mental problems?If not, she needs to be.Most people with parkinsons have forms of dementia.They begin suttle but they are present.Three thousand dollars for a sweeper.Think about that and you decide.Return to sender would have been done if it had been me.

So sorry SS, we spend most of our time playing catch-up ball in the elder care zone.


Like BG, I am concerned about your Dad. You said he was plain worn out and that could explain just paying for the darned thing, but if you are POA for her but not him, there is a seperation between his and her business. So he wrote a check to pay for her business from whose funds?

OK, no answer needed there, just food for thought. I am also wondering if some of the "scams" aren't a lot closer to home than Jamaica. If word is out that you can go there and claim a debt and get paid (at least once) maybe your Mom isn't completely to blame for all these "debts". What proof do they present that there is in fact a debt? Is there a signed IOU? Your Mom says, "Oh yeah, that was me, I did that?" Did you see the money or see a receipt for the money when she made her scam donation?

They should have proof that a loan occured before they are reimbursed. Is there interest involved?

Sweetie, I am very worried about this. More than one scam could be going on and it might not be your Mom that is at fault.

By the way, this mess about the vacuum,,,BG is right. Your Dad can refuse the delivery or ship it back unopened. Even if opened and used it will not perform as expected. A $3,000 vacuum better be able to clean the whole dang barn.

It is past time to 'consider' an attorney. It is time to act. Most often the initial consult is free, so get the duckies in a row, write down your issues and expectations. Have your questions ready and give them a chance to put a plug in this dyke so that something is left to care for them.

Spookystuff, you are great to care and try when so many don't want to be bothered. We will share what we can, often a new set of eyes and ears finds the worm.

Mae, again your wisdom and experience lights the way.

GREAT tips from all of you!! I like the idea of placing an ad in the paper re: her debts moving forward. My brother lives out of state but I will be in touch with him and he may need to visit an elder care attorney with me in person. That will be next. After my mom borrows money from NEW people, she tells my dad how much she borrowed, then he goes to see them in person, confirms the amount with them then pays them out of his own money. Then, I pay my dad back out of my mom's checking account. The same goes for the "supposed" $3,000.00 vacuum cleaner. He writes the check in full out of his own checking account then I'm expected to reimburse him. This is the pattern. It makes it difficult to make any sort of dent in her own credit card debt as well. My bro. and I are worried that Adult Protective Services (who's already been to the house and spoken with my parents)...will open a case on my mom and possibly my dad for that matter. Rather than go through all of that, I will probably just need to make minimum payments on her credit card debt and get someone in the house full time to care (and KEEP TABS on my mother) and pay probably $5,000.00 per month for it. (private pay). That's what is likely to happen in the next month or so. When my bro. confronted my dad over the phone about the vacuum, he just said, "It's already done." I suggested a stop payment on the check. My dad is a "short" guy with a "short" fuse if you know what I mean. It's unlikely he would ever give me P.O.A. of HIS money. Their finances are definitely separate. Now I can see why. (right or wrong)

spookystuff, has your mom always felt this need to spend money?Also who is the more dominant one, mom or dad?Many times ones spends money to fill a void in their lives .Has your dad always had a short fuse.Money means power.Also your dad always cleaning up her financial mess guarantees she will always need him
JUST CURIOUS ABOUT THE EQUALITY IN THE MARRIAGE AND THEIR PERSONALITIES.MONEY CAN BE USED AS PUNISHMENT , GIVE ONE CONTROL, OR IT IS A GUARANTEE OF ONE REMAINING.
Each having seperate monies kinda gives each independence from one another.
Your dad may have a short fuse but that does not have to be so intimidating that you and brother cannot sit him down and explain what is happening or what could happen.Be forth right with him.Pull no punches.If you see someone about to jump off a cliff, you do your best to stop them.Also the idea of placing the add in the paper about not being responsible for bills made by mom is a good idea
The documentry I saw stated that women with Parkinsons are usually the ones who gamble and spend the most money.PEOPLE WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ANYONE THEY VIEW AS VUNERABLE.Be careful of them both

SS and Mae, about the legal notice in the paper...I have seen such a thing done but a lawyer's name was representing the party involved and I am guessing something was on file with the court as well. It probably will involve having her ruled incompetent and that is a tricky step to take with some serious responsibility on somebody, probably you.


If APS is looking around, that is all the more reason to talk to an attorney (one that specializes in elder law, see if there are any referals with the local area agency on aging). And as Mae says, it also makes talking to your Dad firmly imperative. More than likely they are investigating scams affecting the elderly rather than any wrong doing on the part of your mother or father. Several here have had dealings with them and for the most part the are on the side of the elder but they can sure put a twist in things. Since you hold POA for her, you may really NEED to know what's up with that.

I'm not trying to be super nosy here, but if you are repaying him for debts your mother incurred, there IS money in Mom's account. If she needs money, she should be coming to you, not approaching strangers.
So, what might happen if you told Dad you would no longer reimburse him, as it is his own choice to cover your Mom's debts?
If you have POA and control of your Mom's finances, there's a reason for that, right?
I'm not sure at all about any legal ramifications, either, but what can a sweeper sales company say when they're informed that the person making the "purchase" has been judged incompetent to do so, and the merchandise will not be paid for - you will be more than glad to return it at their request and expense.
My husband had dementia. It took extreme effort but he hid it well for a while. His daughter talked him into co-signing a loan for a car. On the first go-round they denied the credit, but they were approved by the second company. When she defaulted on the loan, of course they contacted Don. By that time, he could no longer hide his symptoms. It took two conversations with him and ONE with me, and the credit company never bothered us again.

Yes, there is PLENTY of money in my mom's account and yes, I am reimbursing my dad. I am trying to pay down as much of my mom's credit card debt as possible, upwards of $42,000 total. My dad takes care of my mom's basic needs and then some. A hundred dollars to go out to lunch with friends just as an example. Her new thing is this habit of going to NEW people - old acquaintances etc. to borrow hundreds of dollars so she can give it to some Jamaican scam that is suppose to give her millions of dollars (scam). My dad and I agree that I shouldn't give her hundreds of dollars out of her own money just so she can wire it to Jamaica. It's not like she writes a check and we can put a stop payment on it. She uses cash then wires it to Jamaica. Then, we go see the people she borrowed the money from and pay them back. Otherwise, they may sue us for it???? She doesn't go back to the people we've warned....she goes to new people every time.

I think the reason I'm reimbursing my dad is because I don't want to see my mom ruin his nestegg either. As a family, we've got to have enough money to take care of my dad OR my mom when they end up living with one of us kids or they end up in a nursing home. Regarding the 3,000.00 vacuum cleaner - scam or not....my dad seemed to be a willing participant in this one. My brother and I are very disappointed and surprised.