My father has Alz and is living on his farm. My brothers and I have discussed intervention as he shows very poor judgement, cannot manage his bills, does not take meds regularly, and eats poorly. He has emotional outbursts and is very paranoid. Three of my brothers recently had a disagreement one decided to leave the partnership. This leaves the other two in a financial bind and they told my father lies to get him to help them financially. They convinced him to forego their paying him rent and also have him buying them farm equipment.

Now my father has decided the one who left is out to get him b/c of the lies he has been told. He also thinks I am out to get him b/c I have tried to get him to have evaluations of his functioning as I do not believe he can take care of himself and his finances.
The brother who left the partnership and myself have filed for conservatorship and guardianship. My father will fight it--he has always been obstinate and uncooperative.
Part of the problem here is that one of the brothers who is taking advantage of him has durable POA. I am wondering how likely it is to get a different POA appointed. Will the court conduct an investigation of the finances? This would reveal that two of my brothers are taking advantage of my father financially. Is there anything we can do to stop the two brothers from gaining financially from my father's diminished capacity?

Alongwalk welcome in glad to have you
Ill admit first off Im a little confused at this scenario so bear with me Im also gonna play the role of "Devils Advocate" for a moment I am by no means siding with one or the other since only you know the facts.
Father owns this farm 3 brothers and yourself are the grown children your brothers help in the running of this farm...so far do I have that right?
Now one of these brothers is on the outs with the other 2.
These remaining 2 have bought farm equipment to benefit this farm in particular?
And the accusation is that these purchases are frivolous in nature?
How am I doin so far?
Now for the Devils Advocate portion of this:
Ok coming from a family of ranchers (that includes cattle, farming and everything that goes along with this way of life) I can say without a doubt this is some EXTREMELY hard work, up at 3am sometimes earlier and working till the sun goes down on many of those days manual labor the likes most people cant even comprehend, now you have 2 less hands in the mix so in my logical thinking if the purchases are to benefit this farm without putting it at risk of failure then the purchases IMHO are merited...
Now IF money is coming from your dad to line their pockets that is a different matter all together and you will need legal help to sort this all out.
If anything I have said about ranching/farming sparks any truth about this then please sit back and think for a moment before you start a family feud that hurts everyone including yourself.
Only you have all the facts to this story but if what Im reading is in fact the truth where does fiduciary abuse come into play if the purchases are for the farm itself?

By way of clarification....my father is no longer farming himself; he hasn't for a few years. All land is rented out to brothers. Two brothers convinced him to let them farm without paying rent and also to use father's resources to buy equipment for their use. It is unclear if they promised him some of the proceeds.
It comes down to my father subsidizing their farming. They get free use of the equipment and then will probably purchase in a year or two at a fraction of the cost. (They have done this in the past.) Basically, my father is building up the business for them with little monetary investment on their part.
When my father was competent, he may have made a choice to do this. However, he is not compentent now, IMO, and he has no interest in farming himself.
We suspect but do not know for a fact that they may have convinced him to buy into a business deal as well.
If this happened twenty years ago, I'd say it was my father's choice to go along with it. Now he has diminished capacity and is easily influenced by others. We have seen this with less significant issues over the past few years--he is an easy target for any marketing scam that comes along. Several times we have intervened when he has misunderstood and bought into aggressive marketing tactics by insurance reps and other mailing sales schemes (ie: he gets things saying his policy will be cancelled if he doesn't pay when he does not even have a policy with the company).
The family feud was started with the two brothers deciding that they should have all the land (& tried to convince my father to revoke a written lease agreement). Over the last two years, we have had numerous conversations with all agreeing that my father is not competent. Now they have chosen to take advantage of his vulnerable situation to benefit themselves.

quote:

The brother who left the partnership and myself have filed for conservatorship and guardianship. My father will fight it--he has always been obstinate and uncooperative.
Part of the problem here is that one of the brothers who is taking advantage of him has durable POA. I am wondering how likely it is to get a different POA appointed. Will the court conduct an investigation of the finances?

Welcome, alongwalk. Glad you found your way here.
Family finances are frequently complex quagmires. Since you and one other sibling have serious questions, it sounds like you are doing the right thing to have those issues settled. As to what's fair or right, the court will make whatever decisions and rulings that it can. If your father has not been adjudged to be incompetent medically and legally, that issue will have to be ascertained before any of the other financial issues can be reviewed. If your father is competent, then it must be assumed that he is doing what he wants to do and there really isn't anything anyone else can say about the choices he makes, right, wrong or indifferent. If it's decided that he is incompetent to handle his decisionmaking, then the duty falls to his designated representative, ie. the brother with the POA (is it simply a POA or is it a DPOA - BIG difference!). If your brother's decisions made on behalf of your father do not meet the terms and limitations of the POA, then I'm sure there is some procedure to have his powers revoked.

This is complex legal stuff, but it sounds like you are taking the correct steps to reveal the facts and deal with the issues. The court of public opinion doesn't matter - only the points of law governing the issues of your father's finances rule the day.

I hope that everything gets sorted out in your father's best interest. Best of luck!

Diminished capacity is diminished capacity no matter how we try to twist it if in fact these 2 are robbing their own father then it is someones responsibility to make sure they stop.
But anyone would be so hesitant to side with anyone in this unless records in fact state they have gained financially in this the reason being you all have agreed about your dad and if something heaven forbid were to happen to one or both of your brothers the equipment and profits stay right where it always has been with your dad and his property.
Times they are a gettin lean and I could see your dad honestly allowing rent to go unpaid these are his boys not a stranger....
When times get tough family bands together for the greater good and all that jazz knowaddimean?
But if these 2 are in fact conducting private business on your dads land, lining their pockets and not contributing back to the one person that made all this possible then and only then do I or anyone for that matter take a step to your side instead of standing firmly in the middle listening to both sides.
But and this is a big'un you need solid proof of your accusations, you need to prove to a lawyer your 2 bros are profiting on your fathers dime and not contributing back to him.
Also you do need to show proof he has been diagnosed with AD by a doctor.
Do you have that?
And what if any records like banking statements have you seen that prove your case of fiduciary abuse?
These are just a small portion of what your going to need to take to a lawyer to gain guardianship over dad and his estate.
There will be an investigation into financial records eventually in this to see if your bros have gained financially.
Be prepared for some really harsh feelings coming your way but if you firmly believe this is whats happening and you have black and white proof to these allegations I want to wish you all the luck in the world

We do have the VA clinic notes from 2 years ago stating he has Alz and vascular dementia. He has been on Aricept since then.
The brother with durable POA has been getting the bank statements but he refuses to let anyone see them. He was keeping notes on my father's behaviors (such as inability to manage his affairs) and he did give them to me a few months ago---when we all agreed to get paperwork ready for guardianship. He since has changed his mind and will not show anyone the bank statements. Because of this, we don't know for sure what we'll find as far as the finances. We do know my father has lost a lot of money gambling and has bought an alcoholic brother a house. Beyond that, we'll have to wait and see.
I expect the brother will now fight us on the guardianship; ironic that his notes helped to make the case for it.

Has anyone been through a contested guardianship process and/or contested durable POA? I'm wondering if the court will request any evaluations. I'm not impressed with the local VA & expect they will be no help. They seem more interested in saving money. They've ignored things like his taking 3 times the prescribed amount of BP meds, not taking the Aricept consistently, etc. They do a mini-mental exam every 6 months and say everything is fine. They've ignored our requests for more thorough evaluation.

Thanks for all you insights.

quote:

They do a mini-mental exam every 6 months and say everything is fine.

Uh huh... Is this a neurologist or what? I think that the court will have to order testing to ascertain your dad's cognitive level of decline. Since y'all have an attorney involved, it's truly best to discuss these concerns with him/her so that the correct approach can be made to argue the case before a judge. It helps to document, document, document. If you and your brother who has joined you in the guardianship/conservatorship suit have not already done so, I hope that y'all will brainstorm and write down a timeline with supporting evidence of your father's inability to make sound decisions AND the financial events about which you are concerned. It helps to paint the picture not only to a judge but also to your attorney who is presenting the case.

Just curious... Do both of you live on the farm also, or just the other two brothers who are trying to usurp your father's estate? Do either of you have any financial interests in the family farm (other than inheritance), or is all the equity in your father's estate?

AW I was in a hurry so I didnt get to pose a thought I had on this matter.
Does your dad have a will that divides this estate up between the 4 of you?
If so heres an interesting thought...
If this is the case and that property has to be sold and the proceeds divided equally your 2 bro's little ventures may in fact add to the value of the estate....get my drift
What Im trying to say here is to not rush to judgment too quickly on the matter all of you were alright up till this tiff your 3 brothers had right?
Emotions are running high one bro did show you bank statements you stated was there something in those statements that make you now believe theres something going on?
Your uncle on the other hand buying a house with your dads help? Now someone should have stepped up on that matter or at the very least approached your uncle and told him this wasnt a good idea. Being an alcoholic doesnt have any bearing on the matter, if he knew his brother was making unwise decisions and took advantage of that. Would your dad have helped your uncle if he was of sound mind and if so would it have been of this magnitude?
Sweetie I really want you to try and find answers first investigate for at least a few weeks, dont rush to judgment, emotions are high and there are hurt feelings going on here.
Remember an ole sayin...
You get more with honey than you do with vinegar
Visit dad as his daughter, enjoy his company get him to trust you dont talk of business and dont attack another just sit watch listen an learn you may or may not be surprised at what you find.
And remember one thing my dear, Karma.
It always has a way of bitin back

Uh huh... Is this a neurologist or what?

Just curious... Do both of you live on the farm also, or just the other two brothers who are trying to usurp your father's estate? Do either of you have any financial interests in the family farm (other than inheritance), or is all the equity in your father's estate?[/QUOTE]


The person doing the mini-mental exam is a PA. She asks the same 5 questions every time he goes in. The only testing he has had done was a CT scan at the time of diagnosis. We have repeatedly requested more but the VA refuses to order additional evaluation. We all knew there were problems 10 years ago but the VA just diagnosed it 2 years ago.

None of us lives on the farm other than my father. I live out of state; my brothers all live in the same state, within 90 miles. None of my brothers has financial interest in the farm other than renting the land. About a third of the land is covered under a trust from my mother's estate.

quote:

Originally posted by Bunnys_grl:
AW I was in a hurry so I didnt get to pose a thought I had on this matter.
Does your dad have a will that divides this estate up between the 4 of you?

What Im trying to say here is to not rush to judgment too quickly on the matter all of you were alright up till this tiff your 3 brothers had right?
Emotions are running high one bro did show you bank statements you stated was there something in those statements that make you now believe theres something going on?
Your uncle on the other hand buying a house with your dads help?
Would your dad have helped your uncle if he was of sound mind and if so would it have been of this magnitude?

Visit dad as his daughter, enjoy his company get him to trust you dont talk of business and dont attack another just sit watch listen an learn you may or may not be surprised at what you find.

There is a will; I believe everything must stay in a trust for 5 years and then can be sold and divided. But I have not seen it and don't have a copy so can't say for sure.

My brother refused to show us the bank statements so we do not know what we will find there.

The house my father bought was for my brother (Sorry I did not make that clear). My father previously paid off the loan on my brother's house twice when the bank threatened foreclosure. The third time, my father found out my brother was going to lose it when there was a notice in the local paper that it was being auctioned. My brother owed twice the value of the house. Then my father bought a house for my brother to live in (it is in my father's name this time--at least my brother can't borrow against it and lose it this time). My brother is supposed to be paying rent but he doesn't always do that and it never is on time. This is a 4th brother--he has no involvement in the farm. We only hear from him when he calls about 2 times a year, generally in the middle of the night and always drunk. Unfortunately, his name is listed as a back-up on my mother's trust.

I cannot visit my father now b/c the two brothers strictly control who he talks to. It is clear they have filled his head with lies as my father won't talk to me when I call. He has no other reason to be angry with me so I can only assume that this recent hostility is because of the two brothers.

I never would have imagined my family would behave this way. For years, I've heard stories of other families where an adult child has taken advantage of an elderly or incapacitated parent. But I would not have thought my brothers would do this. The last few months, these two brothers have made comments numerous times that they 'wish he would hurry up and die' so it is obvious that they aren't looking out for my father's best interests.

alongwalk, Welcome to ECO, sorry I haven't said so before.

There are several items here that stand out to me. I live in a rural area, used to work in farm and garden supply business before Mom needed more care than my schedule allowed. Mom is from a farming family (the land is still in the hands of those cousins who will live on it) and I have a life long relationship with a nearby farm family. A bit of background so that you know I am not coming out of left field here when I ask you a few questions. No answers required, they are just for you to think about.

Have you actually heard your (2) brothers say this about your Dad "hurry up and die" or are you hearing it second hand?

Why did the Bro that bailed out of the farm do so? Were you in the loop before about their partnership? I ask because you need to be honest with yourself about who is influencing whom.

Who has actually been the one to deal with the VA clinic? If not you, who passes on the reports to you?

Does your father live alone on his farm? No help with shopping, meals?

Will this move of equipment purchases improve the estate, or at least keep it from being sold off, and is that a matter that would be important to your Dad?

How much do you know about your Mom's trust? If it gives life rights, of her 1/3 interest to anyone, it compounds the difficulty faced by the DPOA bro to do this. Believe me, the wrong wording in just one clause of a trust can be a nightmare for a POA/DPOA. I know. Dad's trust overlooked an exception for a piece of property in which he owned 1/3 interest with other relatives. They all wanted to sell, it needed to be sold, and Bro had to go through hoops with the trustee, even though he is executor for Dad's will and has POA for Mom. It was finally approved, but they missed the best offer. Otherwise, the trust has been excellent so far.

If your 2 brothers have not set up a restraining order to prevent you from visiting, you can. If your father slams the door in your face, ouch. But if they think you have joined the "opposition", and they tell him so, well, it seems his memory is intact enough to remember that.

Is there any possibility, that the 2 bros are doing what they can to have your father live the life he wants and protect what is dear to him? Any chance the other bro is taking you down the dark path?

Please have a clear answer to this before you take sides in a court of law. It is likely to be expensive and cause even more hard feelings. Please don't go there if there is any chance of healing the rift... seeing the other side.

I hate hearing about these divisions in a family. It is especially disturbing when the most distant child (and the only daughter) may be relying on info from a bro who may have motives of his own. OK, I am apologising right here. I don't know any of your brothers at all,


You have said that this investment in the farm and a reprieve from rent is a decision your father probably would have made in his sound mind...In our state, part of the wording in a DPOA is an oath to do exactly that. Another part of it is to never use the money for ones own gain at the expense of the estate.

If, after considering the questions posed here, from BG, MB, and me, (and maybe others) you find that a court proceeding is in order, get an elder care attorney and then proceed..

Darlin', you clearly care about your Dad, and I wish the best for your family, but my experience with the elderly farmer, is that they want to have the land farmed and stay in the family if at all possible.. Are you certain that the other 2 bros aren't trying to do this? They do not have to do it for nothing and the rent and purchases issues are better than debt. It could be a deal breaker for the family farm.

Please again, accept my apologies if I am out of line, I just know how hard it can be to keep a farm going, and I also know that it can be the ultimate matter for an old farmer to have his kids farm his land.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bobcat,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bobcat:

Have you actually heard your (2) brothers say this about your Dad "hurry up and die" or are you hearing it second hand?

Why did the Bro that bailed out of the farm do so? Were you in the loop before about their partnership?

Who has actually been the one to deal with the VA clinic? If not you, who passes on the reports to you?

Does your father live alone on his farm? No help with shopping, meals?

Will this move of equipment purchases improve the estate, or at least keep it from being sold off, and is that a matter that would be important to your Dad?

How much do you know about your Mom's trust? If your 2 brothers have not set up a restraining order to prevent you from visiting, you can. If your father slams the door in your face, ouch. But if they think you have joined the "opposition", and they tell him so, well, it seems his memory is intact enough to remember that.

Is there any possibility, that the 2 bros are doing what they can to have your father live the life he wants and protect what is dear to him? Any chance the other bro is taking you down the dark path?

You have said that this investment in the farm and a reprieve from rent is a decision your father probably would have made in his sound mind...

You have said that this investment in the farm and a reprieve from rent is a decision your father probably would have made in his sound mind.

QUOTE]

I'll try to cover all of the questions posed.
Yes, I have heard my brothers make comments about wishing he would die; although they were not nearly so nice in saying it.

As far as the partnership, although I've not been a part of it, I had heard about it all along from all three involved and my father (& mother when she was alive). The one brother did not bail; he was 'thrown out' according to all involved.
One of the brothers has talked about his 'investments' and has said that he is maxed out in borrowing money. Additionally, he is being sued (it is in public records) regarding something to do with his investments. It is clear that he is in trouble with his finances. Over the last 20 years, I've seen him go through several 'get rich quick' schemes. He quits a job, plans to get rich, loses money, and has to go back to the 9 to 5.

Honestly, I've thought a lot about the possibility that the one brother is intentionally causing trouble. I was not there when he was 'thrown out' so I cannot say for sure what happened. I know that other relatives living nearby have confirmed it, however.

I have talked with the VA myself several times. My brothers have talked with them also so I cannot speak to their conversations (beyond what I get 2nd hand).
My father does live along, and gets no outside help. All of us have tried to talk with him about getting help and his sister & brother-in-law have as well. We have gone together to talk, talked with him individually, and in pairs, trying to find a way to get through to him. Physically, the decline is obvious.


My experience with these brothers since my mother died has been consistent--the one has repeatedly expressed concern over my dad's well-being. When we heard the diagnosis, he started reading and going to support groups to learn more about the disease. For months, he has gone to my dad's house 2-3 times a week to make sure he has his meds, help him with bills, etc. One of the brothers who 'took over' the farm lives 5 miles away and he refused to help with monitoring the meds. (Yes, I heard him refuse.)

My father has shown no interest in farming since my mother died three years ago. He has repeatedly said he wants to move off the farm but he cannot do it on his own. (He cannot manage the multiple steps involved in finding a place, paying rent or making an offer to buy, etc. This type of thing is too overwhelming for him.)
Financially, he can live comfortably on the cash rent; that is what he has been doing for several years now. The two brothers were essentially 'set up' in farming. My dad let him use his equipment and eventually sold it to them for a fraction of their worth. Thay have rented the land and used my dad's resources. The one brother who was thrown off has bought land of his own and actively built a business for himself in addition to farming some of my parents' land.

Is there a possibility I'm being fed a line? In regards to some things, yes, I suppose there is. But from what I have witnessed myself, everything I'm told is consistent with past behavior.

I apologize if I've jumped around a bit. It is a complicated situation and it has been difficult to sort out what is actually going on. I do know what I've seen over the years--this is extreme but not totally out of character for the two brothers. None of them are great communicators which soemtimes makes it difficult to get a handle on things. However, I've seen enough to get a sense of intentions.

Again, I repeat my apologies, and it was only to ask that you review all the facts before getting involved in a court battle where your father might be a pawn. It sounds like you have and that being so, I hope you will proceed with caution and hope you and the one bro will have the advice of an elder care attorney to keep everything on track for your Dad.

Best of luck for you and your Dad.

alongwalk, although it seems complex, actually it's real simple. Whomever has DPOA should be making sure that your father receives the care he needs both medically and residentially. He should be guarding your father's assets which exist during his lifetime for his CARE and not for the benefit of inheritance. Unless one has a DPOA, the VA should not even be discussing anything with other parties as federal privacy laws prevent this.

What you can easily see from the outside looking in is that 1) your father is not receiving proper medical care and 2) he needs assistance and supervision he is not receiving. All the rest of the situation depends upon who is telling the story and what they are leaving out. Whether you should have joined in a suit for guardianship/conservatorship with another brother is unknown, but unless YOU can step up and take over his affairs or see that someone locally is appointed who WILL see to your father's best interests, the suit will serve only to enrich the attorney and do little to help your father.

A 5 question office test administered by a PA is insufficient to determine a person's true level of cognitive function. It will point up only the most glaring problems. Someone needs to raise hell on his behalf as he should be seeing a geriatric neurologist for his neurological condition. Alzheimer's Disease is NOT diagnosed with a CT scan. That may show brain shrinkage but is not differential as to WHY the brain is shrinking. It requires a PET scan and careful neurological testing to differentiate between different diseases and conditions which produce dementia symptoms. If your father refuses to seek medical attention and has not deteriorated enough for a court to appoint someone to make these decisions for him, then it is considered his legal right to refuse treatment.

Is the VA your father's sole source of medical care? You mentioned that he is/was a farmer - so this leads me to assume that he was not career military and only qualifies for certain medical benefits from the VA. If he qualifies for medicare, he should be able to go to any doctor he chooses. If he has a medicare supplement plan, any percentage not paid by medicare is usually offset by the supplement plan.

Before throwing in with anyone in a guardianship lawsuit (a costly event), there are certain facts which you need to ascertain pursuant to your state laws. It is NOT uncommon nor necessarily unwise for families to "spend down" assets so that an elderly person qualifies for medicaid or other programs for which they could only qualify if their assets were liquidated and exhausted. Transferring ownership of assets well in advance of your state's medicaid "lookback" periods is a common method of spending down assets. Many families have watched their parents net worths exhausted to care for them. What are the terms of your mother's trust? Was this money she set aside to care for your father or to preserve for her children or what? Is your father drawing income from the dividends of the trust? Not all trusts are the same and the purposes are quite important...

Personally, if I lived out of state and had no personal, first-hand knowledge of the facts involved, I would be very reluctant to join with anyone in an expensive lawsuit that could cost me a small fortune and end up not benefiting my parent. It would make me highly suspicious if my siblings entrusted to oversee my parent's financial affairs were reluctant to "show me the books" and explain their strategies to me.

You need advice from a professional in elder law to decide how to proceed in your father's best interest...

Uh huh see AW I can honestly say without a doubt here things have been said in the heat of the moment, if I had a nickle for everytime a care giver said something to the effect "I wish they would die", Id be rich and if anyone has cared for a LO on their own and been through this and is willing to tell the truth they would agree...when things get hairy with our LO's and they are suffering this is a common thought at one time or another whether its said out loud or in their minds. I am guilty. But does that make me a monster? Absolutely not.
Thats not said out of hate or anything of that nature it is ONLY coming from the most compassionate part of ourselves, we hate to watch the suffering that happens with our LO's.
For Farmers and Ranchers one thing you do have to understand in regards to this way of life is while we may seem different on a few levels we are not, we just approach a situation differently, emotion free and sometimes to an outsider we seem harsh.
Your brother or brothers are seeing a bright intelligent vibrant man widdled down to what they see right now, a shell of a man.
Take what you have heard with a grain of salt my dear its frustration at watching this man slowly becoming someone they dont know anymore and funny thing...that same man we are talking about....there will come a time possibly where he wont know you.
The biggest question of the moment is this love...Is your dad unhappy with his life?
When he speaks, the last time you stood toe to toe with him was he unhappy nevermind his illness.
Can he live his life without wondering or worrying who will pay for his care?
If he will live out his life in general peace then what you plan on doing is only going to upset the fragile balance he does have.
Money should always be the last concern if at all, with a farming or ranching family barring the economy of today it is something that is never spoken of with your children if we have something and we can help thats what we did and still do.
Now I mean absolutely no disrespect but I want you to put yourself in the boots of your brothers that are caring for your dad. Now whether that is physically working that property or hands on with your dad, remember one thing love....You are not there. You are miles away with your own life, like it or not you are not participating in the running of that farm or hands on caring for your dad, they are.
Given the dialog till now if I was in your brothers boots (and I have been) you betcher sweet butt Id snap a book closed if you started insulting me & my intentions to my parent or the person I was caring for. Think about it sweetie if this was your child/husband/mother father you were caring for, wouldnt you get pissy if someone questioned you about your intentions or that you werent doing a good job or you were stealing?
They kicked one bro to the curb that couldnt catch a clue in regards to living a good clean alcohol free life...Yes a house was bought but its in your dads name not his.
Take a deep breath love, I doubt theres abuses going on here. Your just being strung along by a brother who just got his tail whooped, only he knows for sure what he did and now he grabbed onto the one person who doesnt really know the real reason *standing in the room when it happened* for being ousted from the family business.
If this were me, I would be the bigger person apologize to my brothers and not try to interfere with things that I dont have a part in like the business of running that farm.

I do appreciate the questions and comments. It has helped me to think through the situation.

I do not like that my father's illness and limitations have been exploited; I have taken great care to ensure that any differences among my siblings do not affect what happens with my dad. I certainly would prefer to have found a different way of handling things. Between my father's personality traits (unwillingness to accept help and follow medical recommendations) and the recent actions on the part of two of my brothers, I don't see many options. I've tried to do what I can; even took 6 months off work to be closer and assess the situation.
Before recent developments, I thought it was time to intervene. Events of the past few weeks have made it seem more critical.

I've said all along that I would move back if necessary to provide care but my father has made it clear that he does not want any help, from me or anyone else. Much as I hate to do it, it seems that it will take involuntary action to get him help and now to protect him from being exploited.

Sweet heart, you have seen here that we sometimes play a little "hard ball"and recognize that last week, we may have heard the "other side" without knowing it.

It boils down to being expensive to go to court, but sometimes there is no alternative between the parties involved.. I hate giving up on settling differences about how to "care", but if it really comes down to "IF they care" well, move on to the next level.

It sounds like you do stay in touch with other family (we all know family can gossip in the worst way, but they can also be good sources of info, you just have to know your family).

I hate it that it comes to this, but sometimes it does. Still, if your Dad is doing "OK" in a sense, garbage goes out, decent food in the fridge, regular checkups that are OK, you will have a hard fight ahead of you. I am so sorry, and again I urge you and the bro to work with an elder law attorney.

Glad to hear your are SURE you are not being used.

Good for you my dear! Now this is where you will find the real truth
I hope like heck what you think is happening is not, theres nothing worse, but if it is the only way to get to the truth of the matter is to get down in the trenches.
I cant stand to see a person used it pisses me off like you wouldnt believe.
Just know what has been said is just to make you think clearly on everything said and done.
I know you have a good heart sweetie, you care.
Thats all that matters....
Good luck and keep in touch.